Bay 12 Games Forum

Use ghostly possession to possess GWG

Avoid getting possessed. Maybe stick by a rabbi.

Colony Name: The Earldom of the Brave Romance
Name: Earl Timertikos Cardial
Region: Southern North

Start planting Morningglow. Also try to find someone who knows how to make wine.

In addition, make sure the militia is fairly well-armed.

Also build a nice, colony-run inn for any travelers looking for a place to stay. Analee Island is a lovely place this time of year...and perhaps the Spanish would be willing to accept hospitality as tribute, should we be invaded.

"Fine, you guys just smash the door, I don't care."

"The door? Heavens, no."

Locate the lock. And the link to my character sheet...aha!

Taking 10: 10+1=11
Do I find the lock?

Assuming that we can make golems out of golems...making a golem out of any cosmic structure more than several times Earth's size is going to be impossible, because it's either A. a gas giant of some kind, B. a star of some kind, or C. has a density comparable to or less than air. When we can make an air golem by carving sigils on individual air molecules, then we'll talk.

Sigh. Why do it the easy way when you can just as well break anything in your way. No subtlety or intelligence there.

True. Redacting.

Ninja'd by GM. Please redact my previous action.

Quote from: Jbg97 on February 02, 2013, 05:43:23 pm

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 02, 2013, 05:18:54 pm

Making a golem bigger than a planet is going to be nigh impossible. Making a golem out of the solar system would be roughly comparable to making a golem out of a few air molecules.

Nah, we're gonna make ourself immortal, fly into outer space, find a brown dwarf, turn it into a sigil, turn the rest of the matter in it's solar system into a golem body. Then, after millions of years of repeating this process, we'll turn the entire galaxy into a golem. In such a golem, the stars are merely coals in the furnaces of our race, black holes are merely garbage dumps, and other galaxies shall look upon our golexy and weep for they know they shall be next to be consumed to fuel our ever-burning lust for more power.
OMNES SIMUL, IN UNO. IN UNO, OMNES.

+6.
We can work to turn everything into a golem.

There's just not enough "stuff" there. I'm pretty sure that the density of the universe as a whole is significantly lower than that of air, or even hydrogen.

"I have an idea."

Alecks tries to find the lock, and if successful blasts said lock with his lightning and fire breath weapons.

(Also of note: His current Anomalous Mutations are, to be simple, Evolve Combat Instinct *2. That's nice and simple.

Another note: Could we have a list of characters and sheets in the OP, or barring that a link to the OOC thread?)

I fail to understand how making angels capable of repairing our afterlife would make them any less able to defend it by fighting.  I'm not completely opposed to butterflies, it just seems like a silly way to spend time and mana when the same job could be done more efficiently in another way.  For example, say you hire a person to watch your dog while you go on vacation.  Would you hire three people; one to feed the dog one, one to give the dog water and a third to walk the dog?  Wouldn't it make more sense to hire one person to just do all three of those things considering they are all so closely connected?  Having a person only give your dog food does not make them the master of feeding dogs any more than having a person do all three makes them a jack of all trades, master of none.

The difference is, defense and maintenance are both skilled tasks. You can't really be a master of all trades.

A person is not always trained as a soldier and engineer because it requires training to do both jobs and it would be difficult for one person to learn and excel at both fields.

Precisely.

However, you also want to make butterflies that are able to repair the afterlife.  I presume these butterflies will not be trained in the field of repairing our afterlife; rather it would be something that we imprint into their natural instincts and behavior.  If we can do that for butterflies, then we could do the same for our angels.  They would also be able to instinctively repair the afterlife as well as fight and it would not require any training to do so.  This in my opinion nullifies the major argumentative factor of having angels be able to do both as neither would require time for training and they would not lose out on any effectiveness from being able to accomplish both tasks.

There are several considerations.
First off, no mind can hold an infinite amount of knowledge. If I were designing this game, it would be exponentially more expensive to design minds more and more powerful.
Second off, we would probably be augmenting the repair capabilities with natural abilities, which we would then need to cram onto these "angels" instead.
Third off, the afterlife isn't going to stop breaking down just because the angels are needed to defend some point.
Fourth off, angels can't pollinate flowers.

Another thing that factors into why people are not trained as both soldiers and engineers is because if you lose one, you lose both.  Keep in mind though, our creations will be in our afterlife.  If we do make butterflies simply for repairing things and the void spawn manage to get through, there is nothing more the butterflies can do and their usefulness is expended.  The angels on the other hand would still be able to fight after the void spawn break in and would no be in any way nullified as the situation changes.  The angels do not need to fight unless the void spawn break in, so up until that point they can spend their time patrolling and maintaining our afterlife.  If we make butterflies to maintain the afterlife, our angels will have no purpose unless the void spawn break through.  Thus our creations would not be operating in the most effective manner possible.

Wrong. The angels could act as a sort of "police" force in the Afterlife, and we would definitely need the Afterlife to be repaired if the Voidspawn were flowing in.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on February 02, 2013, 07:43:46 am

Words.

It's perfectly relevant to the issue at hand. Not only in how much work we'll have to do to make them smart, if lacking in the entirety of free will. But also as to whether or not they're better than animals. We can ask Uristiel what kind of civilization and technological progress the Troglodytes have made, but I'm doubting it's anything better than simple tool use. Something even crows and monkeys can do.

The exact definition of sentient as you use it isn't the problem.
Troglodytes don't lack free will. They have a soul, they have free will.
Oh, and guess what? For a while, humans had nothing better than "simple tool use." Put a modern office worker in the jungle; if he lives, he'll start with "simple tools," because that's all he knows how to make. You can't judge potential by what is present alone.

It's easier that way if you're expecting a fight, too. And perhaps they're more intelligent than intelligent canines or intelligent parrots. But they're incapable of expressing that intelligence in a useful way, like escaping their cages. They're pretty much living like animals. That missing part of their soul is where whatever, or whoever made them forgot to fill in the blanks in their brains and minds, and it was filled with animal instinct. We can do better.

Again, you're making assumptions about A. the mental capabilities of the troglodytes and B. what I mean. I can at least prove your assumptions on the latter point wrong.
I am NOT opposed to modifying the troglodytes, assuming they do not object. I am merely opposed to making them slaves, whether shackled by iron or their minds.

See, that's the thing, if we mold them into something else, like bug people for example, it would be as thought they were a bug person that had a dream they were a Troglodyte. Only now the bug person is awake. If we make them enjoy serving us, there is no work they won't take some enjoyment from. Why would we need to give them utterly detestable jobs, when we have a bunch of slots for expansion in the not so detestable sectors? We can automate the crappy stuff with biological machines. The difference between building something to work for us, and mindraping something instead, is that in the first case, that is all it knows. It's hard to explain, but imagine that time when you found out about how much fun utilizing your sexual organs was. Now, imagine instead they did nothing beforehand, and then a wizard came along and bestowed the power of pleasure upon you in your adult life. That would be an incredibly distressing discovery, in all likelihood.

You don't get it.
Making a creature enjoy basic, menial labor--and only said labor--means that it will never be able to rise in station, because it will never try. It's as bad as passing a law saying they have to do this work, if not worse. Remember that HPatMoR quote you seemed to agree with?
In any case, we are taking self-aware beings (troglodytes do have a soul) and turning them into creatures that only like labor. However you define the transformation cannot change this.

I think it's possible because it seems to be possible. Grumugga has devoted orcs, and we can make plant robots to work for us. It's not much of a stretch for born-zealots.

You don't know that she made the orcs are mindraped or whatnot into being zealots. It's more probable to be the environment the orcs raise their kids in.

As for slashing incomes. Come on, you really didn't do the math? 10+.5 equals 10.5, not 5. Whereas 10/2 equals 5. The Empire would be slashing their income by removing free will from beings that already have it. Instead of bolstering their mana income with new, half soul creatures(something they're unlikely to do, order and whatnot). So, what would it do to us? Give us more mana.

I can't believe this. You keep wavering back and forth. I have no idea what you're trying to say. Somehow it would cost the Empire tons more to make their people love serving them and hard labor than it would to make our trogs do the same thing? Unless you somehow interpreted me as asking why the Empire didn't turn their peoples' souls into troglodyte-level ones, in which case I would advise you to actually read what I post.
I was asking why it would cost more for the Empire to perform the exact same mental modifications to people as you propose to do to the troglodytes.

I'd also like to question what we can gain by basically making them slaves over not doing so. On one hand, workers that can't rebel; on the other hand, the loss of the moral high ground and abandoning our central moral tenant of free will.