May 9, 2024: The May '24 Report is up.
News: April 23, 2024: Dwarf Fortress 50.13 has been released.
News: February 4, 2021: Dwarf Fortress Talk #28 has been posted.
News: November 21, 2018: A new Threetoe story has been posted.
Forum Guidelines
Form my own group, called the Debater's Guild.Become member of Debater's Guild. If possible.
Recruit as many skilled debaters and pilots as possible to the group.
Launch a massive debate against all members of the Law Empire, and use their bodies to construct ships for the Debater's Guild.
Is the webbing magically conjured or is it made or energy?Conjured.
If the second, attempt to break down and absorb webbing.
Y'all are SO DAMN LUCKY I am not at that meeting!How long do you think you'd last?
Just make a giant magical light projector, which can be seen from miles around. The images seen will be selected through magical meansI bet I could do that...
"Hm...interesting. How do you like those whipdrakes I made?"[/shadow=greenright]Growing, calling some pitterpatterers. You know, the small things that run around on the ground? I want to have a look at them."Oh, hush. I'm just trying to be polite. How have you been?"Also, during the time when Neyravah rested, he flew over the world, visiting other gods' lands to greet the gods and see how and what they were doing.You should watch yourself, lizard. My fires are no place for one who smells of grass and fragile things.
And GWG, what you are doing now is a bit abusive of the free minor acts thing for elder gods. I will count all 3 together as 1 Act.Perfectly fine by me. I'm just glad you're not charging me Major Acts for each little thing I do because I don't have Minor Acts to spend.
He's playing Udil? Sweet.Who's playing Udil?Just wait for a while. The player has already said that he will be posting his turn when he has time today.
Very IC discussion in th IC thread.... damned flooders. Anyway:Amusingly enough, I'm moving your points to the OOC thread.
Creating two races is a way to create internal conflicts in society unless they are very different (Like sentint trees. Or hives of insects...) But no two humanoid races. Especially one clearly superior to another. That includes different varieties of humans )Depends on how well we do it. If real people can get over hundreds of years of prejudice, a god can smooth over issues before they start.
Also, I am against any serious genetic modification because that will limit our growth in future (normal humans will shun our society as a society of damned monsters)Well, I'm not sure how it would limit growth, and it would only make others see our village as a "society of damned monsters" if we made them monstrous. (Which some other people are suggesting...)
Sporejackets... We have a perfectly fine way to spread spores right now, there are absolutely no need to create them. Also, our most likely enemies are gods of death, and they don't care about spores much. And many things can go wrong with such creatures... From hurting our own people to killing fire-jackets. And I am as anti new creatures as you people anti-boon, waste of mana in most cases+1
my feelings towards using souls from the afterlife is that it is only done when the souls want to influence the material plane, and preferably in a non permanent way.I agree with this sentiment.
the souls in the afterlife have earned their bliss. once again, I don't see them as our assets, I see them as our followers.
You should go read "the last night trol"l, Alice and the left stone debate was(is) hot, ask GWG about it.(I told you the flaming wings would ruin stealth...and now we don't want to give it to anyone...)
No, a few minor boons are good. They don't cost much mana, give good benefits, and if we choose wisely, can encourage mortals to behave in certain ways in hopes of appeasing us and convincing us to give them a boon.Quoteyou wan to waste mana on dozens of useless boonsAgain, Mana is the most important resource, but not the only one. And I don't think that boosting economy is useless. Maybe not useful enough to compensate several % of our mana income (I think otherwise), but certainly not useless.
Agreed. I'm really not used to agreeing with people this much...Quote3-5 new boon users at 'potent' level that would be far [/superior.Portent boons for unskilled users is a bad usage of mana, they can't use it properly, and probably will hurt themself or others
One of reasons to give many minor boons is to find talents that will receive stronger boons later
You're assuming most of the costs are start-up. If most are in the per-unit, it could cost dozens of times as much. But we don't know.Which would be easy as we already have the base. The mount of mana and time needed for expansion would be minimal.QuoteActually, it would be 3 mana per day, as per what Corruptor said when we first created the afterlife.When and if we make a good afterlife
Our initial one gave only 2 mana per soul for 2 souls. So it needs great expanding to reach that standard
Like making it 100 times bigger.
Again, assumptions.When we first created the afterlife we needed to do a lot of things, most of all create a mini universe in another dimension and then construct the base of the afterlife. we dont need to do that now.QuoteTime consuming? Mana consuming? we crated the afterlife in a day.Yep, we crafted a simple afterlife in one day, complex one will take much more
Hey, we all are.I may be wrong but when ever i see you post its usually to push your own ideas. Whilst i do agree with your ideas sometimes, you rarely push ideas that aren't your own. I know it may not be intentional, but it does seem a bit arrogant.Quotewhilst also discounting everyone elses ideas as inferior.Simply untrue. I adapt my ideas to other's ideas. I modify ideas of the others
But yep, I am rarely +1ing (But I do that forvery good ideasideas that I like much)
Yes, make suggestion but dont stubbornly repeat and push your ideas, especially when they have so much resistance.So he should submit to the will of the masses? As someone who is rarely in agreement with the others, I disapprove.
a better way would be to put you ideas forward every time the situation changes, if it doenst change, the reception o your ideas will not be different, so dont keep pushing.He's doing fine as he is. Otherwise, he looks like he's agreeing with others' ideas when he's just not allowed to comment.
1. Wait, making little mushrooms into towers is simple?!?It takes Eldritch (our potent life boon user) a long time to do relatively simple things such as create Saps and grow shroom buildings. Minor life boons in such numbers would be a waste of mana.Quoteyou wan to waste mana on dozens of useless boonsAgain, Mana is the most important resource, but not the only one. And I don't think that boosting economy is useless. Maybe not useful enough to compensate several % of our mana income (I think otherwise), but certainly not useless.
If you like to shot down my suggestions without good reasons, feel free. But do not scream.
We should give them minor boons to do that. You know, because you can't learn without doing...Well, train them up then!Quote3-5 new boon users at 'potent' level that would be far [/superior.Portent boons for unskilled users is a bad usage of mana, they can't use it properly, and probably will hurt themself or others
Azula was magic-ed up to the hilt by us before she did that, and we aided her by telling her how to do it through whispering in her ear.We only taught her. She only had a minor boon IIRC.
And Eldric could only really reinforce hings we had already done, or do things under our guideance.Oh, I hallucinated those bushes he made in the heat of battle.
No, it is not loical. No other god we have met has that. The only possible ones who do have followers which number in the thousands and millions. and therefore have the mana to burn.Sigh.
we dont.
i can see your ideas being beneficial when our population is 10 times what it is at the moment, however we should only get 3-5 new booners maximum and have them at the very least be major booners. no minor booners.
A. 10-12<50, not greater.Why be so conservative with boons? I can't understandits not greed, its because:
Just greed? To not spend that 5-10% of mana income?
A) we dont need 50+ booned folowers.
B) We need as much mana as possible. stockpiling for a rainy day.
We have no time to upgrade it, especially if we consider possible problems with bad rolls. IMO, That's should be delayed to after the feastAgreement on both counts.Quotewe can mine copper ourselves. the other ores we cannot.But we have no weaponsmiths, and we need weapons
So let's only give useful boons, like increasing agricultural output, and have them evangelize. If we send them out to help struggling farmers and such (on the theory that we don't need to stockpile food), we would probably get enough worshipers to recoup the costs pretty soon.A) We don't need them because nonbooned followers are better than booned? Or why?We dont need them because having lots of near useless minor booned followers wouldn't help much and the mana cost would be too high. Anyway, our current booners can do things much better and much faster.
B) Then, let's cancel existing boons to save mana for a rainy day
C) We don't have 50 followers
And no, lets not cancel the current boons. they are vital. lots of inexperienced minor booned followers? not vital.Depends on how overboard we go.
we need to expand the afterlife. just expanding without adding any major unique things would not take long, and not use much mana. No one is saying we should do it before the feast either. we are planning for post-feast time. We can add unique features later still.Eventually, yes.
and, finally, why would we want to make our own race? it would be unpredictable, and it could even eventually become hostile. better to keep them as respected workers a the moment.Because we like making stuff. And we intend to make them into mana farms.
seriously, its like talking to a brick wall.We're all brick walls here.
We wouldnt spend anywhere near the same amount of time on it as we wouldnt be making it from scratch, we'd just we expanding it.Assumptions.
What time constraints? the feast? we are planning for AFTER THE FEAST! read for hells sake. willing blindness is not a virtue. and the fortress is not our concern until the dwarves have finished constructing it.Not made clear.
Because, in real life, expanding something, especially something you already have a solid base to work from, is much easier than creating the same amount of something from nothing.FTFY. We're adding a lot more on top of what we have than what there is, so it's currently unknown territory. I wouldn't be surprised if cost scaled pretty directly to capacity.
and what makes you think its so hard? has Corrupter explicitly said that creating the afterlife was hard? that expanding will be hard?No, he's assuming that the game is intended to be "balanced."
the only reason you assume it was had is because we (a very inexperienced, newborn god) took 1 day to create a whole new realm from nothing, whilst usin up a respectable amount of mana.A very small afterlife, which you are proposing increasing in size by a couple orders of magnitude.
I like the idea about the boon competition where the untalented get their boon taken away and the most talented get upgraded to the far more useful major/potent boons. We could do this after we expand the afterlife.Why not start the contest, expand the Afterlife, and then check in on them? Compromises!
and expanding the afterlife is not an optional extra. it needs to be done, sooner rather than later.The timing is an opinion.
maybe you two should consider some time-out, The next update or so should go pretty straight forward.+1(0,000,000)
the two of you are just beating the same horse over and over and getting a little personal there.
discussion is fine, even heated discussion is fine. but the accusations and assumptions aren't good form.
let it rest for a bit and things play out. maybe things will come up that change the discussion.
I think Krait said that his snakemen dont produce mana for him, and we dont know if Goblins do either.Goblins are nothing more than modified orcs (by Word of Corruptor), so they can be assumed to.
Personally, i think modifying humans is a very bad idea due to the sheer effort needed and the high possibility something will go wrong.Depends on what we're doing. Natural boons, minor features? With parental permission. Making Buds? With extreme forethought and careful effort. Making monsters? No.
+1-snip-+1
I'm fairly sure xenophobia might kick in if we try that, and unless they're paragons of beauty(read: elves in many depictions), then I have my doubts we will get anywhere any time soon.We can talk with Krait about this.
Besides, we need to figure out what we can do. We don't even have to use our chaos abilities on the prospective child. We just have to encourage growth of what we want, and discourage growth of what we don't.Acceptable points.
We can get the firey-red hair by getting the proper pigment producers to reign over the improper ones, and make the kid into Lord Beefcake by promoting muscle growth, we could get the kid to build a badass immune system with our prompting, while fixing up his cells with life to reduce or even eliminate the chance of an auto-immune disease.
It's probably more difficult than just whacking him with the chaos bat, but we can do it.
This is what science is.
As an aside: is there a difference between a race with less free will, and a highly subservient race, or can a race be all subservient to their god and free willed? I suggest a bunch of bug people if we go the genesis route. They can be our subservient slave race.Look at [insert commentary on real-world religion here]
Anyways, I think we should do these things after the tournament1, 2, 3, 5: Sure.
1.Expand the rose bush and give it abilities to defend itself such as the ability to throw vines and use them to attack enemies. (Don't expand create new one that way we have about three lines of defence).
2.Send out minor patrols of stems along the trade routes in order to ensure there are no ambushes by greenskins or anything else.
3.Decrease the gestation period of the Stem seeds back to about 3-4 days.
4.Corrupt the trees along the trade routes for extra defense purposes.
5.Have our Stems train with our other creatures and promote Combined Arms Tactics to ensure that.
6.Ask any of the souls if they would like to go back to the material world in order to be souls for the firejackets.
And lastly, NO BOONSWhy not?
I am not suggesting physically manipulating the child to some monstrosity but just giving the child some abilities that manifest itself over a decade or two; so the child doesn't get overwhelmed.This is fine.
Elva? That's asking for issues. Do we really want a shield from misfortune? (Or a boy named Elva?)+1+1I don't think we should tamper with unborn humans like we do with fully grown ones. We are a god of Chaos, but we are also benevolent. If we don't manage to get the child born (or turn it into a wretched abomination) because we were tinkering around with it, we are going to loose followers (obviously the child and it's parents, but also others who then see that their god can fail).+1 to this, don't try to mess with the child, who knows what will happen just because of our prescense? It's like in Eragon.
I say we just touch upon the child, make sure there are no curses or illnesses, have Lara heal the mother of any illness we find and then just let nature go it's way. I am sure even us touching on an unborn life will have an effect on the child, and it's more Chaotic if we don't know what effect that will be.
I guess we can give the mother a ring with a small manarack stone embedded in it to promote any tendencies that develop with the child.
it goes without saying that I'm also against tampering with the child. its human potential will just have to blossom on its own.
Let's just make sure babby is formed without issues first. Hell, let's suggest naming the kid after the girl from Eragon anyway, though.
I was 1000% sure that you'll request the adamantium dagger [sarcasm] of cause it's far more important to spend a shitload of silver to buy an expensive toy for Laksus than arm our soldiers [/sarcasm] The only excuse is the tournament, but still his kukri are doing the jobIf we can afford both, we should buy both. If not, I agree with you.
As for constructive ideas... I honestly don't know, not enough time to do anything serious and I made my suggestion almost exactly after the update.For the record, I like your idea about the growing contest for boons.
Maybe grow corrupted trees along the new roads on our territory, (Any road can be used by invader) or some beautiful plants (flowers) to make better expression for everyone who visit us. (Again that's a perfect job for plant booners.... but there are irrational fear of boons).If we go with the trees, be damn sure we control them...
Maybe do our own, grassy road to Ceres and join it to the network that is forming and turning our village into a trade center.+1
Maybe grow plants with deep roots that could absorb tiny amounts of manarack in soil( Not rock, soil. It should have it, that's how many veins work).Good idea...after the feast.
I like this idea. Nice and neat.QuoteGrant 5 minor boons, and 1 major.How about 4 minor and 2 major? Then we'll have a nice 4>2>1(Eldrick) progression. Somewhere later, if we decide that we need more, we may upgrade them all and add a new layer of level 1 boons. making the pyramid like 8>4>2>1
But if we do grant major, be sure that Eldrick will oversee and train unskilled major booners
Let's not waste souls on experiments until we have some guess as to what would happen.Sentient firejackets (or other sentient things with souls) Is OOC material right now, we shouldn't discuss it here until we know more about souls that we can use. I have many reasons why I think that firejackets with soul may be good ( and many reasons why that is risky, main is that their 100% loyalty is important for our economy ) but it's too early to ight themI wasn't intending to make them sentient, just put souls in them and see what happens.
But, again, I am sure that it is extremely hard to do a new race (creatures with soul, that will give birth to new creatures with souls) , because GM said that. And free will is a double-edged sword.
"Oh, hush. I'm just trying to be polite. How have you been?"Also, during the time when Neyravah rested, he flew over the world, visiting other gods' lands to greet the gods and see how and what they were doing.You should watch yourself, lizard. My fires are no place for one who smells of grass and fragile things.
Maybe we should start small. A single cell to throw Charlie in. I can put the expansion of the prison on my to-do list.I'd rather start with something we can toss anyone we like into. Think for the future.
For all we know Charlie won't be taken alive. Considering that little incident with Jims Golem...
I would think it much harder to escape when you are in pain.Ideally, we wouldn't have to use pain...but we could if we had to.
Nice to see that no one objects to looking at the atheists menacingly, and drooling voraciously, one more insult, and I may just eat that man's children, and release a carrier into the streetsStick to threats if you don't want a divine smack.
