Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on January 20, 2013, 02:08:37 am

Quote from: Xantalos on January 20, 2013, 01:55:34 am

Yeah, Ghaz specifically said that they're not interchangeable. I think you have an Act, though.

Dammit, and last I checked no.

Ah well. You get Mighty Acts, after all - that's far more than just a jungle. A Mighty Act is like creating a planet or moon or something.

...ADDING MORE MAGIC.

GreatWyrmGold: you don't have to wait for GM action to show yourself to the dwarfs. You can basically RP the encounter yourself

Oh, goody...gimme a sec. How big of groups did the dwarves live in?

Just google - "mole tunnels collapse" and enjoy. ( Here some description of their tunnels
IRL, They collapse just after any serious rain. And that's tunnels with several inches deep. I repeat: moles don't need to dig deeper.

Good thing rock doesn't get wet and collapse in rain then, isn't it?

Mining require intelligence it can't be done by animals or everything will collapse  sooner or later. Especially with some aid of a hostile earth god

I suspect that the mole is not going to cause any major issues on its own. The holes it digs will probably need to be reinforced before, say, dwarves can mine there, and if Grunmugga takes interest the tunnels will collapse...but to what end? The mole would probably survive and keep digging. Assuming She actually noticed, took interested in, and acted upon the tunnels.

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Now imagine giant ants

I imagine... what will they eat?

Same as the mole and firejackets?
Metabolism will never be a problem if we don't want it to be.

WHY NEW CREATURES? And redundant ones with that. And useless, too.

Agreed.

I strongly dislike these moles. Offer them to the dwarves to get rid of them. Do not create those ants.

DISAGREE. Seriously, it lets us get manarack; once it finds the rack, it'll pay for itself.

Bigger problem with new creatures is that while we're tinkering with them, WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ELSE, like getting new followers, allies and ressources.

Agreed.

Have an agreement with the dwarves to mine that stuff. Discuss with him the price of his miners WITHOUT telling what they'll be mining. Try to weasel a good deal. Use the moles as bargaining goods.
"How much would you takefor mining stuff on our territory?"
"Hmmm... Like, half of it?"
"And if I offer you those moles?"
"They could be great helpers! I'll take 30% and the moles."
"Deal."
"Deal. What will we be mining?"
"Manarack. :3"
"..."

Seems kinda rude, and why not have the freaking mole mine it?

Hm. maybe playing chaotic games with Uristiel is not the best idea, but anyway he should do the mining. It's his speciality. In fact I think he can and will analyze our land for minerals as soon as we offer any mining deal. He is a god of earth and should see such things

And the best way to turn Uristiel into our enemy is to try to hide our manarack and mine it ourself. What should God of war do when there are some resource he needs but don't have access to? Just imagine order gods offering him alliance - help us, and you'll get the mines. I doubt that he likes us that much

It's our manarack. Do we expect Uristiel to share his adamantine and other metals?

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No need to make new creatures but also no need to discard already created. 

It's not discarding, it's an attempt to make it useful. Giving it to the Uristiel give us certain diplomatic benefits. Because for him that mole is useful

It is useful to us.

Yes, we should start more plots with saps. Or more precisely   - our villagers should expand agriculture, including raising more saps

We had some inferior crops, like cotton that  we don't need with spider silk, those can be removed after the first harvest, but more plots are needed... Let's use the worforce. And I propose to give 10 minor farming boons to boost our agriculture, we can allow ourself 20 mana daily

Plants should be our focus, IMO... They are much easier to feed then any other troops

+1 except for that last bit. Firejackets and their ilk are easier to feed IMHO. We already use them as soldiers.

I do have a vision of the mole as a war machine...... not only would it be able to undermine cities and the like, I also have this vision of a massive sinkhole opening under the enemy and them falling in only for a mole to pop out 'producing' iron ingots from their armor. I still oppose giving out manarack but that's just personal preference..... although we have yet to find out if Uristiel has an opinion on the chaos/order conflict - it is still possible he could side against us.

I happen to agree with this.

In fact, I think that mole can be useful as a military unit, too.

But I'd rather give  it and percentage of manarack (or other goods) to Uristiel

Why? Because we can spend all that mana, time and workforce spent on mining at something else. Finding allies, fortifying base, upgrading our champions, making artifacts, getting worshipers, expanding our forest, improving the fortress and other thing that we are more adapted to, then undeground works

Or...WE COULD USE THE FREAKING MOLE.

I had one little idea for Manarack,
Do not mine it all, but create trees that reach it with it with it's loooong magical roots, and slowly drain mana out of it, but guys here prefer digging and turning manarack into weapons

You don't want to use a mole we already made, but you DO want to waste mana on a tree to partially use a resource we could fully use with said mole?

Just consider that, we don't rely on mechanisms and metal weapons, we really on the plants and natural creations, then why extract Manarack if we can use it where it is now? Stronger tree = more firejackets, and that's a base of our military and economy
Stronger tree = life area = bonus to raising troops

But we could just MINE THE FREAKING MANARACK WITH THE FREAKING MOLE AND USE THE MANA GENERATED BY SAID FREAKING MANARACK, OR TURN IT INTO MECHANISMS AND STUFF SO WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP AN EYE ON OUR COOL STUFF SO IT DOESN'T RUN OUT OF FREAKING MANA!

And roots are way easier than mining operation. And no damage to ecology

1. Roots generally don't go through feet of solid rock. The mole can.
2. Tunnels don't damage the ecology, either. Mines IRL often do, but that's typically due to either open-pit mining or what the people do with the stuff they take out of the ground (cyanide pits and such FTL).

For the moles, keep in mind we only made one.  It doesn't have a mate and thus won't reproduce if we don't want it to.  That said, let's give it a chance.  Have it start digging around for metals and if we have problems with the tunnels collapsing or whatever than we'll stop and see about working with the dwarves.  If it does work than great, no harm done.  Also, the mole shouldn't work alone.  Send down some saps with it to smooth out the tunnels, keep things clean and organized, carry out the metals and stabilize the tunnels if necessary.  We could probably use plant materials for support, like giant roots that wrap around the tunnels and keep them from collapsing.

+1...although once we have mana to burn and no enemies, we should probably create a mate for the mole and possibly export the babies to the dwarves.

Spec-ops team can get something valuable... information. We need info about army composition, common strategies and fighting styles and see if this Gods of Order hate each other. Also, we don't need to attack supply lines. We attack enemy commander, the people who keep the army organized and in line. Spec-ops teams, can can do a lot more potential damage then a army clashing into each other can.

Remind me, what were we planning to form the SOT from?

Imo, it's plain stupid to mine some of the manarack.. Create a proper mining industry and then stop mining?  It's either\or, both just a bad decision
Stop that jack of all trades approach, use our strengths and concentrate efforts

Agreed.

Mining is not our strength, trees are our strength

So? WE. HAVE. THE. MOLE.

All that chaos bombing stuff can be done without manarack

Works better with, but...

AND WE DON'T NEED a nuke bomber. We are in a defensive mode and need fire-support for our  troops, not kill everything below

Plus.
Freaking.
One.

Be more practical, please, stop that "it sounds cool! +1"
That's how we got that mole

The mole is useful. Not something I would have agreed to, but it's already working for us.

Rolepgeek, only you want play the - let's destroy all life around and make our own creatures instead, don't you see that?

Well, lots of people want to make a new ecosystem, and lots of people want to use weapons that destroy everything...but the general idea is correct.

And Mole was a waste of mana, there are some ways to use it, but we had dozens of ways to spend that mana  better ( F.E: improve the afterlife and get +139 mana daily. Or make new fields, or... or.. or... )

Agreed.

Trade it away\make it dig a road is a way to have at least some use for it

DISagreed. Manarack is the best thing we can use it for now. Oh, and FTFY.

And no ants or any new creatures, please.

+1. Again, consider when we have mana to burn and no enemies.

To Spec-Ops teams;

That's essentially what Laksus does.

Only Laskus is one person. He can't do a whole team's work.

To Chaos Cannon;

I proposed the unfocused version because it just seemed more like chaos; but a lens would be an acceptable compromise.

The cannon would have variable 'settings', or degrees of openness, ranging from 'kill one man' to 'mutate the entire city into walking bags of flesh'. This would be the main control setting for the unfocused version. Also, if we use a lens, we should be able to move it away from the firing point in-case we want to inflict maximum destruction on a wide area. The hinges could be possibly supported by and moved by custom plantlife, perhaps vine-based.

I still think it's crazy. At least talk it over with Kra--Uristiel first.

As for a giant fusion cannon...hm. That's a truly insane level of heat, and would require a lot of time to build up.

And we don't know about fusion.

I disagree only in that we do want a WMD on our flying city. It's something we can use for fire support, especially in larger battles, and generally just gives our main base something to give it extra firepower.

Ideally we'd minimalize long-term collateral damage, though...

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Oh, and for the record...when we hadn't made the mole, I would have been opposed to making it and suggested asking the dwarves to help (not duplicitously). But we have to mole and therefore ought to use it.
I am reminded of a Theodore Roosevelt quote:
"I took the Canal Zone and let Congress debate; and while the debate goes on, the canal does also."
While we argue if we should use the mole, it's digging for manarack.

Oh, and you guys post fast. There's been like two dozen replies while I was compiling this.

Halt!

Arent you still missing a hand on that arm?

I don't think so.

Anyways...DAMMIT, not what I thought would happen.

Szahell. Bind wound.

Well technically I did kill an Eladrin.... He was bitten by a Carrier I created....

You forgot to put my name on there, and I propose the measure of slaying the atheist infidels

I also propose being called the Conclave

B. Slaying the Atheists
Due to the negative effects atheism has on the divine economy as a whole, it has been suggested by Javier that we condone and support the slaying of atheists.

C. Renaming again
Javier also suggested that we rename the Synod to the Conclave.

Incorrect, GWG. Carolus is the single most powerful mortal in the world, currently.

The Eladrin are the most powerful mortal species, however.

A strange cobalt-colored substance, comparable in stiffness to stone but in density to clouds, is formed. Tiny creatures live and form their own ecosystems on these blue clouds, floating high above the surface.

Neyravah looked upon the dwarven lands, and saw that it was not good.

Create a mighty jungle on the rocky continent using a Mighty Act.

He crumbled boulders for soil and grew trees, great trees. And yet, it was not yet good. He added vines, some with poisonous leaves but others bearing sweet fruits. Neyravah also created many kinds of animals to inhabit the jungle--from little butterflies to pollinate the trees to clawdrakes--reptillian beasts 20 feet long, predatory and hunting in small packs. Other notable creatures are the clubdrakes, larger than clawdrakes but herbivores; flitdrakes, winged creatures only a few feet long, which live in flocks and could be trained; ouranites, clever dual-headed serpents; and crocodiles. There are also colorful birds and some small rodents, as well as giant frogs, salamanders, and spiders. The jungle was filled with life.
But was this enough? Neyra and Ravah realized they could do more. Swiftly, they expanded to continent, adding inland seas. The trees grew massive, taller than any others in existence. The beasts grew numerous and often larger. Fangdrakes--larger clawdrakes, nearly 50 feet long and with puny forelimbs--prowled alone through the jungle. Whipdrakes, massive and dumb, wandered through the trees, eating low leaves. A multitude of incredible beasts were generated. Finally, Neyravah realized one thing to make this place complete.
At the center of the continent, he made a huge mountain, with smaller trees. At the top of the mountain, he made a massive emerald, glowing with inner power. This glow reached over nearly the whole continent at dusk, although by night it lessened and it was almost invisible in the day. All things touched by the glow were strengthened, invigorated, and made fruitful. Thus all of Neyravah's creations would be blessed. The glow also caused changes to occur slightly more often, and significantly less of them were harmful rather than helpful. In short, evolution was enhanced.

The dwarves marveled, shaking with fear at the strange changes. A few mourned the destruction of what shelter they had made; but this sadness changed to joy when they realized the bounty of the jungles. All the fruit they could want--sweet and delicious--could be found with a bit of effort. The animals, too, improved the food supply, once defeated; this lead to an improvement in weapons technology. While Neyravah had not intended this, it was not displeasing. When a mighty dwarven warrior defeated a fangdrake, he chose to take them under his wing. They have great potential...

Make myself known to the dwarves, which shouldn't take an Act right?

((Dwarves' meeting RP'd in a later post.))