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Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Pleasant Rest Asylum: A Semi-Freeform RP
« on: January 13, 2013, 06:37:11 pm »
"Hello, [patient]. Mind if I ask what you're doing?" (What's the patient's name?)
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37817
General Discussion / Re: Humans, and eventually a colony on Mars.
« on: January 13, 2013, 06:30:19 pm »How do multinationals count, and what if they don't actually claim the body in question?2. I highly doubt anyone would try to evict an NGO which worked hard to set up a home on Luna or Mars and didn't cause trouble, especially since no one has claimed either of those worlds.2. Internation Space law: Any partaking country (Ie, pretty much anyone) is responsible for anything that it's citizens/NGO's/coorporations do in space. I also believe that claiming planetary bodies is illegal.
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Well, at some point it's just not worth arguing...such as if the other guy is right.Not that much actually. Most of it's locked up in the world's deserts, or other inhabitable areas. Rainforests and such. I was talking about the expand to avoid pop density problem btw.As for unclaimed land on Earth. There's a lot of it. Most isn't of very good quality though, or should be better used as a natural reserve, but anyway.You left out how much of it is in the form of little chunks of land in the ocean.
Yes, you could make similar colonies on Earth, and it would probably be cheaper. It would just probably be smaller, almost certainly negatively affect the environment, and certainly not avoid all the problems that the idea is to get away from in the first place.
(It would be kinda stupid to try and settle the rainforests large-scale, though. The soil sucks, the biodiversity's valuable, and there's already people living in them.)
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Quote1. Yes, but people keep picking at me for supporting a view I don't just because of the thread title. Stupid derails...Quote1. Same principle. Launch costs for mass migration projects to anywhere not Earth are simply too high.QuoteBesides, a large scale Mars colonization project isn't viable before we get space elevators, or some other way to reduce launchcosts. You just end up spending more resources/ energy on sending them up than you'd needed to store them on Earth.Agreed. Three things: 1. Luna first. Not a big difference, but everyone seems to be assuming I'm advocating we colonize Mars now instead of getting a working colony on Luna first, to test the ideas and get our feet wet. 2. Of course you'll spend more resources getting stuff into space than keeping them on Earth; warehouses are theoretically costless. 3. Space colonization has benefits, which must also be accounted for.
2. I was talking about the people. Getting everyone a decent living will be much more practical on Earth than shooting them into space is.
3. The freedom to be irradiated? Less silly, there are some benefits, but they are few and far between and only apply to select sections of industry. Most people only get hindrance.
2. Probably cheaper...but it loses most of the benefits I keep mentioning, so it's not actually an alternative.
3. I was referring to benefits like far away from Earth's madness, not specific industrial benefits. (Which would still exist, mind you.)QuoteWhatever. It's really not germane for this discussion, nor for my argument.QuoteJust a general note. The largest problem for a Crocusant style planetary city would be overheating. Energy can't be 100% efficient, and these stacked infrastructure tends to work as a gigantic heat magnet. Last numbers I heard would be that the Earth could reliably, using state of the art technology sustain about 20 billion people. This would have it's effect on standard of living and environement.The thing to consider is that, in that case, the surface would likely be being largely used for food production or wilderness. Heck, I would probably support advancements that make underground cities practical for just that reason. Will such measures be needed? Not for a while. Would they help the lives of many? Probably. Will they happen before they are desperately needed? No.Okay, 7 or even probably 15 billion people could survive on Earth. But not at our current standard of living, certainly not with our current environmental practices, not for the long run.Not that it's scientifically accurate[1], but you put me in mind of the Caves Of Steel world of Asimov. That has a world population of eight billion! And they're forced into a "cellular and modular" underground lifestyle to squash everyone on the planet into a viable subterranean living volume, with the emphasis on communal space over personal space included.
Trantor (probably the intellectual result of the Caves Of Steel prototype, both in-universe and conceptually) is at one point posited to house 40 billion souls (and is mostly a produce importer, rather than self-sustaining, at that point). I can't guarantee the scientific or sociological accuracy of this latter case, either. I just thought it an interesting point to add. I may well be wrong.Quote1. Solar storms are in fact bad, but deserve classification under "Radiation" rather than "Weather," because they're just radiation.QuoteSolar storms are freaky, if unlikely. Normal storms are evadable, and usually not that bad. A good modular,flexible colony should be able to weather them without problems. People inside will get sick, probably. (Actually, it depends. If the entire thing weights enough, it might just ignore the waves at all. Same reason why a modern Cruise ship doesn't experience waves that much, but a small fisherboat would be thrown over immediatly.)...Even pretending that the ocean's surface is worthless for all causes at the moment and ignoring political consequences, weather alone will cause more problems than Luna's environment ever will (assuming a good standard of construction for the colony). And the ocean surface is pretty important for, you know, phytoplankton and such...ever hear of it? Base of the marine food chain, produces 50% of oxygen on the planet? A single greenhouse might not impact it much, but there would be impact, meaning that it's not "unlimited."Oh? How do you get enough food? (Hypothetically, you could use the same sort of greenhouses I've been proposing for Lunar or Martian colonies, but space on a cruise ship is MUCH more limited. Related:) Where will you put everything and -one? How will you get resources to make new clothes, books, whatever when the old ones wear out? What will you do, bereft of any kind of mineral or other resource, many of which are so common on Mars, when something inevitably breaks?You have pretty much unlimited space around you in the form of ocean. Making a floating greenhouse isn't all that difficult.
2. Normal storms? No problem. Big storms? Problem. Especially given that global climate change seems to be making worse oceanic storms...QuoteAlso, since you're going to be eating that plankton, and encouraging it's growth, you'd end up increasing the amount of carbon fixated. Provided you let enough plankton live, and open up enough space for fishes, you can expand quite far....How would the growth of plankton be increased?QuoteExpand and explain, please.QuoteBioplastics?QuoteGetting resources on the ocean is pretty irrelevant since you were talking about the limits of space.So? You'll still need resources once on-site. Are you going to ship steel and plastic to your greenhouseQuoteYes, it costs more. Guess what? It also offers more of the benefits which I was talking about.QuoteLaunchcosts alone justify the earlier statement.QuoteI was just pointing out the absurdly bad return on investment of colonizing mars for land area, for a fraction of the cost of making people live in cramped conditions on mars you could make them live in luxury on the ocean. And we haven't even filled up very attractive landmasses like New Jersey yet."Live in luxury?" I doubt it. Not unless you want to spend more resources, which you could by the way also spend to make the Lunar colony more spacious. And Earth's surface is a lot more useful than Luna's or Mars's.QuoteYeah, space habitats aren't a good idea for much of anything except zero-gravity and spaceports. Maybe not even those.QuoteSpace habitats being cheaper is doubtfull actually. They might be in the short term, but space habitats might have a larger launchcost(Habitat needs much more reinforcing than say a dugout on Mars/Moon), have troubles with taking up orbital space and having to evade spacegarbage.QuoteIf you want space then just make space habitats, they'd be vastly cheaper then mars.Than, and space habitats have the exact same major disadvantage as floating ones: The difficulty of obtaining resources. It's worse, in fact, due to not having an easy way for the outside world to ship them steel or whatever and not being able to take anything from outside their living space.Oh, so you want to save human knowledge, fondation-style? Well, send computers in orbit. There, no need for a colony, and it's way cheaper.That's a technicality and only lasts as long as the computers (a couple decades at most). Besides, knowledge is useless without humans to know it...and, um, this isn't the first time I mentioned this.QuoteDepends on the area.
Otherwise: 1) Any enviromnental impact of a small-scale colony on earth would be negligible. You're talking about a middle-sized city.Quote2) Even if you decide you want self-sustaining librarians with your library, I still do'nt see why Alaska wouldn't be a better choice than Luna or Mars. Just buy the damn mining right, it's not like the US government is preventing any mining in Alaska.Guess what? You're still vulnerable to every-freaking-thing that affects Earth! WHICH IS EVERYTHING I'M SUGGESTING MAKING A FREAKING LUNAR COLONY FOR! IF YOU OFFER ALTERNATIVES, MAKE SURE THEY ARE ACTUALLY ACHIEVING THE SAME GOALS!QuoteNow, let's move on to something more interesting....Space colonies aren't interesting?QuoteIf asteroid mining become a reality, will companies pay royalties? Who will they be paid to? The UN? It'd be nice to have royalties use to fund up all those causes that developing countries need to beg or all the time.That would be nice. Doubtful, but nice.
37818
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Feudalism Rethought Redux: Step 2
« on: January 13, 2013, 06:15:36 pm »How many points does being demons that have more people and incredible fighting skills cost? 2? Really? Only 2? Especially considering the only diplomacy will really be between you guys? I think an unarmed teen vs. a trained soldier being equal is kinda ridiculous, tbh. But, anyway. GWG's game, just interested to see how things turn out.FWIW, I charged 4 points for the combat ability.
Oh, and it turns out that big axes and polearms really were the best against plate. You know what's good against that kind of wide-bladed weapon, though? Chainmail.
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Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: You are a new God
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:53:09 pm »Did we forget that we could tell when one of our people dies? You don't think he'd notice that the people he sent to gather those ones especially if they have boons, were slaughtered? If we keep them prisoner and show that we aren't heartless murderers the same as them, and have honor, he might be open to diplomacy. Besides, if they're alive, we can get them to tell us more about the EoT.Forgot about that...yeah, keep them alive if possible. If not? Don't worry, prepare.
37820
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Feudalism Rethought Redux: Step 2
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:51:25 pm »are probably what GWG twice human speed?*shrugs* Maybe. Probably a bit slower. Still a bit out in the air; the only definitive number I have so far is "Several humans to a Mesorthing." That's what I said in the PM, right?
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Oh also my men use axes, so plate armor will not help much when my men are hacking your arms offLet's see...I think slashing weapons were the norm until chainmail came along, then--screw it, looking it up..
37821
Roll To Dodge / Re: Perplexicon: Magic is Confusing: Null
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:49:00 pm »I could, but that would require me to A. know what to put in it and B. have halfway decent Paint skills. Or an acceptance of a poor map.use ms paint?Someone needs to make another one.If I had a map, I'd be able to start one now.Hell, I'd start one but I'd need all of the words.Or make up a lexicon.
Well, not these words in specific, just all of the effects.
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Roll To Dodge / Re: You Are Lost: Minimalist Semi-RTD (Accepting players) - Dr. Rex shot first
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:46:31 pm »Isn't the pond near the shack I just came out of?Remove a couple wings from the toad, to eat and help it fly.I don't think you're near me.
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Roll To Dodge / Re: Perplexicon: Magic is Confusing: Null
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:45:44 pm »Can't be that bad. I mean, let's face it, near-holy light is better than SUMMONING VOID DEMONS TO REND THE EARTHThat's not saying much. Oh, and about the best that's happened when I used Cainthalsaz has been that one statue thing.
Someone needs to make another one.If I had a map, I'd be able to start one now.
37824
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: You are a new God
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:43:20 pm »You're also assuming their god doesn't have the power to make an example of us. I bet it, and the government of the Tranquility guys, has been looking for any excuse to say 'here's what happens when you mess with us'. We literally CANNOT defend ourselves in a magical way today. Their god has pretty much free reign to nuke us right now.If he has the power to spare, if the 10 freaking refugees are worth it.
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And if we make a show of force, we make ourselves a threat, too.And if we don't, we make ourselves a slave.
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Actually, the best answer is to capture them unconscious. That way they can't tattle on their god about us. If we put them into a permanent coma, we win.Meh, whatever. Killing's easier and makes them just as silent.
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And yes I'm assuming this god is vindictive. He advocates killing children, just because they might do something.It'll probably work about like it did with Grummunga, but with Krait taking the place of Maher, cooperation rather than fighting, greater forces and power on our part, and time to prepare. So, unless this god focuses an undue amount of effort on us, we'll be fine.
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Horses are stupid animals. We can probably manage to light them on fire. And yes I'm assuming we can kill them quickly, because that's how ambushes tend to work on a good day.No arguments here.
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So our chaos golem and our were-vampire are tough. This guy has sent ten people with boons at us. Even if they can only conjure a light sprinkling of snow, or kill a small flower, or finish a game of scrabble with their power, this god is showing he has resources to throw around. Resources we do not have.Well, guess what? He's spreading his resources over an entire empire. What happens if he lightens his defenses or boons somewhere to pound us into the dirt? Revolt or conquering. Pretty high chance there. It's not worth it for 10 refugees.
37826
Roll To Dodge / Re: You Are Lost: Minimalist Semi-RTD (Accepting players) - Dr. Rex shot first
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:38:42 pm »37827
Roll To Dodge / Re: Perplexicon: Magic is Confusing: Null
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:36:34 pm »
Cainthalsaz? Oh dear.
Hm...I just had an idea...
Word. Hopefully this works.
Hm...I just had an idea...
Word. Hopefully this works.
37828
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Feudalism Rethought Redux: Step 2
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:34:32 pm »Question for GM: What's medieval tech. Specifically, early or late medieval. Even more specific, gunpowder, Yes*/no.*shrugs*
Probably closer to late medieval. Plate mail, long- and crossbows, straight swords, but not any effective firearms. (Explosives? Sure, especially unintentional ones.
)Medieval vs Ironage is a good 2000 Years, you know.Remember when he said that an unarmed preteen girl of his race could fight off an armed human soldier? That's probably true. They're strong and tough enough that each one can take down several human soldiers, assuming approximately equivalent levels of gear and training. Also, he's got about a 20% population advantage, and he'll probably have a higher draft rate come wartime. Plate armor and such will help, but when you're faced with larger army of inherently superior melee combatants...watch out.
...No, it's around a thousand. Rome is iron age, Crusades is Medieval.I was pretty sure that was right.
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On another note, Crossbows out-range longbows. Unless you're talking about dinky little hand crossbows or some shit. But the good, big crossbows with 400 lb pull strength? And they fire lighter projectiles than crossbows? Oh hell yeah they go farther. Their disadvantage is a long ass reload time. The british longbowmen could draw, aim, and fire fast enough that there was a volley every ten seconds instead of the 40 to 50 seconds required for the giant crossbows.I'd advise the slower but stronger and longer-range crossbows against mesor's demonic forces.
But the crossbows used by the sung dynasty could not hit mongol bowmen because the bowmen had much longer range.I'm not sure about the specifics, but that's entirely possible.
Factor in super strength and means that I can use longbows that an average human could not even draw which would give me even longer range.
Pretty sure my longbows will out distance a crossbow.
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Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Pleasant Rest Asylum: A Semi-Freeform RP
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:32:34 pm »
"This can't be good."
Keep looking; let the next few nurses I see who aren't doing anything important know that I'm trying to find her. If she's still MIA in 15 minutes or when my pager goes off again, try to get an organized attempt to locate the missing patient, um, organized.
Keep looking; let the next few nurses I see who aren't doing anything important know that I'm trying to find her. If she's still MIA in 15 minutes or when my pager goes off again, try to get an organized attempt to locate the missing patient, um, organized.
37830
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Crime
« on: January 13, 2013, 04:50:47 pm »Anyhow, run away fast.+1