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DF Suggestions / Re: The guideline for magic/combat should be "how do i shot web".
« on: January 09, 2013, 09:19:47 pm »QuoteNo, Necromancy shouldn't be like that. Magic isn't an on/off switch. Maybe some people have the potential to do magic and some never will, but learning how to bend the forces of nature to your will isn't something you pick up overnight. Name a single example of a fantasy world in which magic isn't something you need to take a while to learn how to do rightIt isn't knowledge on how to bake a cake it is knowing where a secret passage is. You either find the secret passage or you never knew where it was in the first place.
Well, why would it be like that? Magic's always seemed more of a scalpel than a sledgehammer to me. It's just a scalpel that hurts like a sledgehammer. And will probably hurt any or everyone else if you screw up. Unless it explodes or doesn't work. So...not much like a scalpel, but more like one than a sledgehammer. Or secret passage.QuoteYou can say the same thing about knowing how to bake a cake. Or make a chair/mug/axe.QuoteWhy?Because nothing prevents you from using it and raising a zombie. You either know how to do it or you don't know how to do it. There is no inbetween state.QuoteExactly, this is KNOWLEDGE. You can know how to do something without knowing how to do something well.QuoteWhy not? You can't start out as a masterWhy not? This isn't incomplete knowledge fumbling in the dark no jutsu. This is Arcane knowledge.QuoteYou either know it or you don't. You either can do it perfectly every time or you can never do it even slightly.Is that true anywhere in real life?QuoteHense why you don't learn necromancy in any capacity watching it.Or maybe there's more to necromancy than gestures? Just a thought. There's probably mental exercises inherent to the system.QuoteNo. That's not how souffles work, it's not how magic should work, it's not how magic has worked in any fantasy literature that I'm aware of.QuoteUm, you aren't going to make a perfect souffle on Day 1, Try 1. It'll take trial-and-error, time, effort, etc. Once you actually learn what the heck you're doing? Sure, you don't even need to look at the slab/cookbook. Until then, good luckAnd if you cannot make a perfect Souffle you havn't made a single Souflee and thus you are not a necromancer. You either know it or you don't.QuoteI shall call this the: Know or do not know systemI call that idea stupid and suited only for media which don't care about making learning magic how learning any art so delicate should be.
Where you are either a complete master or you lack the ability in any capacity.
Which can be obtained in two ways.Me too, but that's more due to the magic imbued in the tablet granting power instantly that the knowledge itself. And it should take practice before the powers act like you imagined.Magic is not instantly learnt in nearly all cases, and it's more fun when it isn't.I could imagine the tablet, being given by a god, is embued with the ability to pass on the knowledge of life and death.QuoteThough yes I agree that reading books on life and death should take longer, but reading doesn't take any time currently.So the current system isn't be-all-end-all...QuoteMore like the "Deadly magic is deadly, so make sure you're careful before you learn control."QuoteAgreed. Learning magic should also be ridiculously dangerous for everyone around, but in the end very powerful.
Ahhh, the "Deadly useless magic" system. Where it never gets to the "End very powerful" part because of its "ridiculously dangerous" part.QuoteSuffice it to say Necromancy, as it is currently, isn't a spell system. It is a power or ability that is the extension of the will of those who know the secrets of life and death.The reason it's that simple is that Toady was working on about two dozen things that release and couldn't make everything perfect yet. Oh, and BTW? That's how PCs' magic in 99% of video games works--you learn a spell, then it's perfect. Not so original...
While not all magic needs to be like that. To throw it out is sort of throwing out a rather unique aspect.
Keep the "Know or do not know" System and keep the "Power revealed" system. Then add whatever you wish as possibilities.His self-quote was the answer. Maybe not a clear one, but an answer nonetheless.He quoted myself and he quoted you with no response of his own or connecting thoughts. Essentially there was no response. Thus I have no response for what is essentially no response.People like my idea!? What is this nonsense?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
No response to no response.Yes, it kinda does. You were saying that we should make magic either a 1 or a 0. Putnam suggested another way to make it not 1/0.I was trying to suggest that your claims that this is a boolean issue is false, since there are ways to make it, you know, not one.Which doesn't apply to what I was trying to say. So yeah...QuoteAs well you forget. The goal is to remove Zombie HP.Whose goal??QuoteI am just ultimately talking about the possibility of new abilities being learned through arcane knowledge as fully mastered and fully powerful without steps in learning being taken. As well as the justification for such and the like. As something that cannot be learned by a dabbler but only by a perfect master.You seem to be talking about something in which you are either completely unable to do it or "a perfect master," not something it takes skill to learn how to do.
((Incidentally, one thing I like about DF is that anyone can try anything if they could reasonably have learned how to do that. Magic shouldn't be 100% limited until some arbitrary point, then you get 110% of it.))
