Bay 12 Games Forum

We don't need to baby them. Let them go into the cave, they can handle themselves.

My personal vote for what to do with the Left Stone gift: Pass it on to our son with instructions that he is to use it to impregnate whichever consort of his that he bestows his First Gift upon. This will give the first female troll Hypnotic Gaze, Tattoos, Teleportation Tumours, Camouflaged Body, Springy Legs, Divine Blessing AND possibly another talent that our son passes on himself.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on December 25, 2012, 10:30:14 am

Quote from: Silverionmox on December 25, 2012, 05:51:54 am

Quote from: GWG

Explain a difference between a flood and a cistern filling.

As I said, optional and the definition depends on the required fluids rewrite.

"Optional?" And no, there isn't any technical difference between filling a cistern and a flood.

Yes, optional, as in not essential for the suggestion and just a possible beneficial extension. It gives the option.

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But they require combat, which would have to be done in non-crisis mode...

As I said, it's more or less "when dwarves panic". They don't panic for tantrums.

You're not responding to the point I said that for. I was pointing out that you would need non-Crisis-Mode combat for myriad situations.

I'm happy to address each of them. Shoot.

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Again, we meet the issue of dangerous creatures being ignored until it's too late.

As I said, it's up to the player to decide whether to apply that mark or zone. Caveat emptor.

Problem is, precisely zero creatures can be trusted to not figure out a way into your fortress if they're capable of frightening dwarves. If the dwarves don't panic, the combat reports are the player's first sign that something's wrong...

Feel free to kill off everything that moves on your map to be on the safe side instead.

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On the other hand, it also makes corrective methods (like putting up walls between groups and the like) effectively impossible.

Well, ask the police what they can do keep opposing groups of hooligans out of each other's hair: building a wall between them is not an option. It's a good thing that such gamey solutions become impossible.

What solutions become possible, then?

If your dwarves are already tantruming, it's too late already for a solution, just the cleanup is left... But we do need a "capture/restrain" combat option for soldiers.

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Anyways, it's more "keep angry people from ruining others' days" than dealing with hooligans. Walls make sense for that, and have been used to keep the happy happy before. The House of the Spirits has a good example that comes to mind instantly--the people pleased with the current administration were shielded from the others by a big wall to keep them safe from the less-happy masses. Replace the governmental issues with the things that make dwarves tantrum, and you have a DF situation.

Sure, but it's more of a long-term prevention measure.

That's why I was suggesting a skill gain limit tied to weapon material.  So a wooden weapon hitting you can only train you to, say, competent, and hitting something with a wooden weapon has a similar limit for the weapon skill. 

This means for a danger room to be any good at training dwarves, it has to be made with actual dangerous weapons.  This also means you can't beat up on a defenseless goblin for days with a wooden stick and expect to be a legendary swordsdwarf.  While training is the purpose of a training weapon, you can't expect someone to be a master of using a real weapon when they've only handled a blunted wooden version of it.  They can get the basic techniques down, but it's not the same as using a real weapon.

The thread's title: "Limit experience gaining to nerf training installations" is proposing a wrong solution to the wrong problem.
The problem is not that dorfs are gaining experience to quickly (although this is debatable in the case of mining and fast, repetitive tasks like smoothing walls or making crafts), the problem is that people are able to use the danger-room exploits.

Danger-rooms break the training mechanism, because they (ironically) aren't dangerous to the user.
And although i agree it needs to be fixed, i cannot imagine how.