Bay 12 Games Forum

Grab bag, sit down, fasten seat belt, pray to every god I've ever heard of.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on December 07, 2012, 08:25:21 pm

Quote from: Reelya on December 07, 2012, 06:01:24 pm

...unless they're hermaphrodites.

...in which case the labels of hetero- or homosexual can't really apply.

Quote

One thing I don't like about the "making it a social statement" thing, is that then you have to drag every social issue into the game, and for me at least it will cease to be fun, and become nothing but a lecture on political correctness.

Seriously, we have books and movies to give you a social statement. I don't want every time I open dwarf fortress to get a constant lecture on gay rights. I think even gay rights activists don't want the "message" infused into literally every form of media they ever consume.

And of course, it would be discriminatory to not include cross-dressing dwarves, and the social conflict that causes as part of the narrative of every single fortress, and about 100 other social elements where there is conflict.

Agreed.
That being said, dwarves/elves/whatever might organize their own lectures on gay rights, to be heard only by other dwarves/elves/whatever, before getting caught and punished/lynched/cleansed by some group against homosexuality, like a goddess of children*.
No "social statement" needed on Toady's part, only the dwarves'. By dwarves, for dwarves.
Point hammered in enough?

No, because the point is bullshit. e.g. if Toady programmed the game to specifically ensure certain situations regularly occur, it's completely disingenious to say "the game did it". If you explicitly code "roll a die, on a roll of 5 or 6, the dwarves in your civ are homophobes and have pogroms" then the very fact that you coded that option, and the way you coded it, is the statement.
Optionally, saying that they game doesn't take any particular ethical stance either way, but is programmed to pretty much ensure it's a regular occurrence, just makes it sound worse.
The point is that every time you play you'd be subject to dwarves etc beating up gay dwarves. Not fun. I don't want gay-bashing occurring every time I load up the game.

1. What part of the post I made suggested that it would happen EVERY time? Besides, acting like no one should care about gayness is a lot more of a statement than just basing the game on reality. What I suggest is just saying "it happened on Earth, anyone denying that is misinformed, there's nothing special here."

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on December 07, 2012, 08:35:58 pm

Quote from: misko27 on December 07, 2012, 08:30:50 pm

But Refering to that particular issue of gender and the like, it will be the same. I think most conflict will be competition and jockeyign for power. Unions, rebellions, religions, all tha FUN stuff. But he seems to want to keep that sort of easily politicizable thing out. Pride marches cetainly weren't very common in the 14th century Europe, which is the limit technologically, and one could say in other aspects.

I'm not saying that there should be a modern-esque gay movement, but if we're going with the "RL 14th-century Europe" angle, homosexuals wouldn't likely be tolerated...

Yeah, but it's the opposite of "fun". And this is a GAME. A form of enjoyment, not a simulation of dwarves going to the toilet etc.

Why don't we also simulate 90% infant mortality while we're at it? And turn all females into constant breeding machines to compensate. That would be a much more realistic simulation of the 14th century than what we have now.

Which is why I didn't bring it up until it was brought up.

EDIT: I'll just mention that there have been other threads about this topic, and they all got deleted when people started to argue about whether anti-gay pogroms should be included in the game for "realism". I'm pretty sure that's a message from someone.

As is s standard practice, I'll drop it if you do.

Okay. Yeah, you get that.

I wonder if I could find some Truenaming-related item. Maybe a book that gives a bonus to Truenaming? If not that, I hope for some useless-seeming magic item I can use to great effect, or SOMETHING. Aside from the pick and maybe a suit of armor another PC is making, I haven't gotten anything of note.

What are Mysteries, anyways?

Looks like I got in just in time!
Or just too late, depending on which post you look at.

Dirg, do you understand why I destroyed the universe? With Misko, it's the same, but not really. Speaking of which, I still need to complete my goal.

You had a goal? I mean since you decided that destroying the Spore universe was close enough.

Quote from: Dirg on December 07, 2012, 09:43:00 pm

HAVE FURBIES SCOUT THE UNIVERSE FOR SIGNS OF WHAT'S CAUSING THE IMPENDING DOOM. WEAR MY MAGIC ARMOR AND POINT MY MAGIC SPEAR WEAPON I MADE WAY BACK WHEN TIM ARRIVED AT MISKO, STAB HIM IF HE KEEPS DESTROYING STUFF. "So the only thing that motivates you to destroy is boredom? Why can't you just be like a normal person and lock yourself in a basement with a train set and leave us alone? I would ask you to stop, but I'm tired of wasting my breath on some overly destructive spoiled brat."

Yeah well that's very- I BET YOU DIDN'T EXPECT THE SPANISH NINJA FELINE INQUISITION DID YOU!?!
Was waiting forever to say that.

...Congratulations, that's something so random no one could have suspected it.

 

Attacking me did not work out so well for anyone last time. And I am a bloody human for christ's sake. I destroy things. I make things go boom. I'm the player at the end of a simcity game. And Dirg? The WORLD, is my trainset.

And I am a spaceship. With bombs that can destroy solar systems.

However, as previously stated, I'm not the one causing the end. I'm just getting a kick out watchign it fall down. Ergo the Prophet.

Um, trying to toss all stars into black holes (more or less) doesn't cause the end?

Quote from: Xantalos on December 07, 2012, 09:59:56 pm

Dirg, do you understand why I destroyed the universe? With Misko, it's the same, but not really. Speaking of which, I still need to complete my goal.

Actually, fuck that earlier explanation. This.

...Okay.

Skeleton 1 moves to B11.
Cleric 1 moves to G11 and casts Heal.
Mage moves to G10, or G9 if double-moves are possible under haste.
Cleric 2 moves to F11.
Necromancer moves to F12.
Troll attacks Warrior 1.
Warrior attacks Warrior 1, making some comment which lampshades the fact that they are statistically identical without breaking the 4th wall too much. If possible to do without any penalty.
Skeleton 3 attacks the Assassin.
Skeleton 2 moves to I13.

Did I miss anyone/anything?

Wow, I'm on top of the waitlist! I'd better catch up on what's happened while I was dead...
Maybe there was some sort of alliance formed I could join?