Bay 12 Games Forum

the wonders of the wireless era

Take one of the horses. Out running the Golem would have been no problem at all if he'd just tried to escape on a horse.

Really. A spooked horse. Which is not capable of knocking down trees.
A bit of a long shot, compared to working as a team.

I had by far the best odds of escape but never even attempted in, generally speaking when somebody risks his life for you the fact that you hid for a reason does not make his act any less courageous. He had no obligation to fight for you or for the team at great risk to his own life but he did without hesitation.

It was still his best chance for survival. Besides, courage does not equate to trustworthiness.

I'm confused, first you said taking the pups was a reason not to now you said it's a reason he can be trusted.

When did I say the latter?

Also I shouted for all to hear that you should all stay away, that it was between the two of them alone which does mean I'm not involved in it. So Carl knows I didn't do it. He was also present for the talk where I mentioned multiple times that he chose to bind her and she chose to accept it. More IC evidence that I was not involved. So that reason does not fit unless he's ignoring what's been said. Even Kyle said he and she chose to do it.

What the heck happened, anyways? I thought this all was happening somewhere else.

He admitted multiple times that he knows it was a bad choice. I can quote it tonight if needs be. He did accept he'd done something bad and knew it might go badly. He did accept his share.

He accepts a sliver of the guilt when he owns a slice.

...Why does the Harpoon take a Back Slot?

Changed.

Hm. So we'd need some kind of transfer medium. I think my rockhand might be a sort of starting place with that--it clearly contains some of my soul, doesn't it? So if I took a mechanism to connect some limb to both me and a target...could work, maybe.

Wait for modules to be released. Refuel experimentally. Don't crash.

Kyle could always just use the one's he will surely add to ICARUS.

A minority means that some are and in this Case Torban is in the minority but thats not really a valid reason for distrust it's a valid reason to wait and see which side he falls on since abstract odds are not valid proof.

...I'll see if I can argue against this, but I'm not quite sure what you're saying, so bear with me if this doesn't correspond to your intent.
Simply put, what do you call someone who trusts everyone s/he meets? Naive, foolish, gullible? None of these are good things, or fit a high Mind score. About the best one should do is the Cold War adage of "Trust, but Verify," but Torban's been flunking the "Verify" stage.

How IC has he acted arrogant and self obsessed?

Do you want a detailed list of examples? I don't have time right now, but if you ask I can assemble one later.

I didn't give him the plant girl. She didn't give me any choice in the matter at all once she was free she made her choice and would have broken me in half if I'd got in the way. Hardly my judgement and you are the ones who argued against slavery. Now your telling me I should have forced her not to make a choice herself? Which is it?

This is Carl's perspective. I, OOC, am a bit confused as to why Alma chose to go with Kyle.* Is it so unreasonable that Carl, who doesn't have my OOC knowledge, would not jump to the conclusion that she demanded to go back to the guy who broke her?
*Seriously...huh?

The pups are hardly a major reason not to trust Torban.

They're certainly a reason to trust his judgement, which if you'll note is what that was about.

Also please show 1 single reason for that worry.

Well excuse me for putting real-world logic into a game for a situation when no fantastic elements are directly involved. Wolf cubs are not puppies, and I'lll be damned if my non-stupid character expects them to act as such!

What name thing? I actually can't remember what thats about at all. I don't remember forgetting any names or being asked for a name at all.

That was me forgetting Alma's name.

Actually Torban did admit himself he knows it wasn't a good idea and accepted it and the outcome. The bit he's not accepting is that it's his fault Kyle did it, he handed him the gun it's not his fault Kyle fired it.

BS. Torban chose to teach binding to a man he just met, who had shown no signs of being able to handle the power and the responsibility but several signs that he shouldn't (see: Alma). The best Torban can claim is the Idiot Defense: "I didn't realize the obvious fact!"
And you know what? That's still a reason not to trust Torban.

Besides would you publicly admit it in front of strangers? What he's willing to admit isn't everything.

And this is supposed to make him more trustworthy, how?

He accepts his portion of the blame but not the full blame.

Not from what I've seen.

1 he set Alma free in a new body the moment she was recovered an action that goes completely against his own interests if he's really arrogant and self interested and can't be trusted to keep his word with the summons thing.

...and then put him in the care of Kyle.

2 and far more importantly. With several minutes of advanced warning more then enough time to escape and despite the fact that both you and USEC attempted it he made 0 attempt to escape and save himself. Instead he stayed behind, tried to warn you causing personal injury then effectively lead the group to victory very likely saving the lives of at least some of the group in the process putting himself into mortal danger to save the rest of you.

Oh, goodie, you know the value of teamwork. Guess what: Even the most horrible of crooks know that.

How exactly don't you have a reason to trust a man who risked his own life to save yours while you fled? I'm relatively certain risking his life for you all out weighs a couple of insulting conversations.

1. How horrible of Carl to not run up and punch the absurdly massive golem! WHAT THE HELL ELSE WAS HE SUPPOSED TO DO?
2. Torban was saving his own hide as much as anyone's. Do you really think you could outrun a creature whose legs are as tall as trees?
2a. And if it's bound to one spot...why did we fight it again?
3. Again, "Willing to act as part of a team" does not make one trustworthy, it merely makes one smart. Even the worst villains know that alienating people is a bad thing.

That was aimed at Giglamesh not the GM. He said he'd rescue to the prisoner not kill the people holding them. So I wanted to know how he'd do that in my situation.

My bad.

I intended to kill the Gnoll summoners since more then a week ago, before I knew they were using threat of death to hold the summoners in enslavement that just gave me an additional reason to hate them. One that should convince even the rest of you it's more then fair to kill them with extreme prejudice.

Acceptable, as long as there aren't practical reasons not to (ie, high risk or violating a treaty that stops the gnolls from killing us).

I know he said he had no reason to trust me. Has none to distrust me either so Carl is more or less neutral maybe slightly on the distrust side of the line. Given his distrust of summoners Carl has to admit my reasoning for the test were valid even if the test was a bit harsh.

...?
I'd say he has a good amount of reason to distrust you.
1. Simple mathematics. A minority of people are trustworthy.
2. How has Torban acted? Arrogant and self-obsessed, mainly.
3. Also, he's been making some...questionable choices lately.
-a. Adopting wolf cubs? Untrained, unbound wolf cubs? Possibly diseased?
-b. The whole...can't quite remember her name thing. (I'm not good with names.) Carl doesn't know much about it, but it sure sounds fishy for both involved.
-c. On that note, teaching Kyle--who he (Torban) had just met and who hadn't exactly been showing optimal judgement--binding, then giving her said plantgirl.
4. Torban also seems to be dodging any kind of guilt he might have to own up to. Trying to blame Kyle for being taught, claiming that binding isn't all that bad, etc.
That's just the big things. Overall...Torban's been a bit, what's the word, unpleasant. And by "a bit" I mean "significantly".

Now give me a reason to trust Torban.