Bay 12 Games Forum

Any plans to add more races to FD? Maybe a race that can transform dwarves into more of its kind, or one that can raise the dead?

You mean, send nobles to other sites and have them diplomat over there? Sounds like a good idea in general, epsecially in conjunction with the ability to send out one's own trade caravans. Which could also be useful in dealing with those tribes of animalmen...

You know, we've mostly been discussing based on the assumption that friendly contact is attempted and succeeds. But what could happen if one or both of those fail? For instance, judging by the fact that the Norse Greenlander's first record of the Inuit included notes on how much they bled, it seems that the former decided to experimentally stab the latter. What if a dwarf decided to do the same with, say, a plump helmet man or something he found roaming the underground depths? This could be Fun. Or maybe the tigerman delegate sneers at the metal weapons his tribe is being offered, not considering them worth sending his tribesmen to abandon their way of life. And that's assuming that they can find a common language to speak. Hm, what if we added language barriers in other ways?

Just some ideas to get us started.

If I understand what you are saying correctly, you are saying that my points--the main one being that dwarves' ethics are what we are talking about here--were raised earlier. They did not seem to have been. I suppose it is possible that I am mistaken as to your meaning, and if so I appologise for both this statement and for derailing this thread from its original topic. What was it again?
*glances up*
Ah, right. Propaganda. I've already said all I can currently think of once or twice, so I can't really add anything unless someone comments on my ideas.

rtg593, it's not so much that we can't stomach slavery--it's that dwarves can't. And who says that it has to make sense to everyone else?
Dwarves are among the more moral races in DF. They aren't cannibals, or thieves, or slavers, or torturers, or goblins. They are completely opposed to most forms of evil supported in the raws, with most such crimes being either severely punished or simply unthinkable as anything a dwarf might do. The only exceptions are killing animals, plants, enemies, and neutrals, and that last one only if they were ordered to. Oh, and lying, but how the hell is any race going to track down every liar in the land and punish them? These aren't mere conjectures, made to make us feel better about playing a short, alcoholic race; they're actual data, gathered from the raws (our only source of information on dwarves). So what if we can currently violate these ethics? The dwarves shouldn't be modified, using Toady's limited time, to violate them egregriously when the player tells them to.


Back on topic: Propaganda could be a "background" thing. Like I mentioned before (I think I did), past civilizations have from time to time used religion to justify massive expedentures of resources and work, or more commonly to justify the larger amount of resources used by these elite.. A group of priests and nobles could claim that the massive monuments for the glory of their fortress are the mandate of the gods, or that they deserve larger living quarters, finer food, etc, than normal dwarves because of this most-favored status. This would create a (probably) unspoken contract between the elite and the masses--the peasants grow food and make crafts and monumants for he elite, while the elite make sure that the gods bless the fort. In the DF world, they might, which is reason enough to spread the propaganda; however, dwarves would probably get good thoughts fortress-wide from doing the work of the gods. If tragedy struck the fort, though, or if you angered the gods somehow (say, by destroying or overshadowing the previous monument), the peasants would see this as a violation of their social contract--e.g. "We're feeding you, but you're not keeping a good word for us with the gods!" This would lead to Fun.

I recently embarked on a kobold cave with seven swordsdwarves, seven swords, seven helms, enough wood to make seven shields, and some supplies. I planned to enable carpentry on them and make seven shields before storming the cave, but discovered that the kobolds were all over the place, some even adjacent to my dwarves! I made a squad, gave them an order, and glanced at how many I had to fight...
And the kobolds are all listed as friendly.

Alright. How would I make the kobolds be actual civ members for my fort, and not just friendly units that will stand around until someone comes along and kills them? I think Runesmith could do that, but it doesn't work with the newest version of DF yet.

Dear shambling corpses of the dwarves, dogs, cats, etc, of The Barricaded Orbs, founders of Evilringed:
Well, then. Would you mind not mauling me and leaving this note here? Thanks.

Dear future settlers of Evilringed,
I wanted to see what an embark on not one, not two, but three separate evil biomes would be like. You all got all feverish and stuff from the foul slime that rained from the sky. (At least you didn't get into that horrid muck--judging by its effects on the local little penguins, you would have been lying in the snow, screaming in pain.) Silly me decided that I might as well set up a hospital, for some diagnosing help.

Nope.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU decided to take a nap on the (snowy, icey, foul slime-ey) ground, to last until you were diagnosed. There was no one awake to diagnose you, except helpful Dr. Skirtglided the Assaulted Order the Muskox Corpse, who killed six of you, before Nurse Fearbites, a.k.a. one of your corpses, finished off the miner, who was awakened at last by the zombies (a couple dwarves, a couple dogs, and Skirtglided itself) before Fearbites killed him.

You. Are. All. Fucking. Idiots.

Sincerely,
GWG, Ovrsr.

P.S. Any living dwarves who find this note, please consider the advice carefully.

See here.

Savescumming is usually cheating, but it's occasionally accpetable, such as in circumstances of !!SCIENCE!!, bugs, or exceptional dwarven stupidity.