Bay 12 Games Forum

So, what, unforbid it when they die?

Hm, actually that kinda makes sense.

Quote from: Gatleos on January 28, 2012, 05:54:43 pm

Quote from: Steam Group

A few may leave, what with the possibility of Toady adding a Pony race or something stupid like that in order to satisfy the forum's newest wave of autistics, and not the creative Dwarfy kind either.

I'll pass.

Hm. That's highly offensive. I hate ponies. Well, when they aren't dismembered by a battleaxe anyway.

I don't hate ponies per se, I just don't want them to be in DF. Vanilla, anyways. The tyranid-pony mod I saw a while back looks interesting, though...

I'm not going to join any DF steam group, but I'm not on steam to begin with.

Well, the "size" token in weapons is measured in cm^3, not in weight, so you should be looking at the weapons volume rather than its weight for chainswords. Also 650 units for a chainsword seems reasonable for a guardsman sword (basic DF has 700 cm^3 for a longsword, which is a standard 1-handed weapon for humans unlike its real-life counterpart) but it seems rather small for one of the marine chainswords. You should probably have several different sizes of chainsword.

Unless Space Marines are significantly denser than normal humans (in the physics sense), having size equal mass (in grams) is close enough. Weapons, though...yeah. Find weight, find normal material, locate density in DF raws, do division. Simple!

Good luck to everyone involved. I'd advise taking (with permission) the parts of the previous attempts, and going from there. Err on the side of over-the-top and dangerous.

This is a place where we can discuss how policies used in dwarven fortresses could apply to real-world politics. Just two rules:

1. This is not a place for serious ideas. Put those somewhere else.
2. Do not treat others' suggestions as serious. You may only argue points using logic that makes sense in DF.
3. Anyone wanting to break these rules should ideally make a new thread, but may post here under extenuating circumstances.
4. Each of these rules counts as half a rule for the purposes of counting.

Let's get started.


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There's a simple solution to unemployment. Take all of the peasants and lye makers, and either have them smelt steel in magma forges, mine down to the mantle to get the magma for the forges, or build massive structures out of the rock. Shame that it'll be all blocky, but meh.
Instead of funneling billions of dollars into the military, we could just send a few miners and mechanics and such to make a magma trap. Simply build and fire. Sure, it'd take longer, but where's the Fun in efficiency?
There's an even simpler solution to terrorism. MAGMAAA!!!

As long as they mention that it was inspired in part by DF, I say go ahead and make similar games. If (when) the players get bored with the other game, they might decide to glance at the games it was inspired by, try to make a megaproject in "their" game, decide to play DF, and maybe it sticks. It's kinda like advertising in exchange for ideas.

10 years of work to get to legendary skill, assuming average skill learning rates and no artifacts made, sounds reasonable...except for a couple things.
1. Alright, 10 years of work later and my dwarf is a...Great Mason. Wha? Ah, the idiot was pulling levers/dragging animals to pastures/partying/using the Broker Lifesystem Chart/hauling rocks to the workshop from across the map most of the time he wasn't eating/drinking/sleeping/on break. Dwarves aren't dedicated to their their jobs as much as they should be. Make parties easier to break up (i.e. without undesignating the room, which seems cheap), allow labors like pasturing animals and hauling stuff to the depot and such to be turned off, and make dwarves choose nearby materials more readily, THEN we'll talk.
2. Okay, between tinkering with the speed of learning and how much dwarves work, it takes 10 years to reach Legendary. Assuming a lucky early migrant, that means that you might have a legendary mason, say, in 3-5 years, assuming no artifacts. Congrats! That mason has been working longer than most of my fortresses! And, anyways, so what? Legendaries make more masterworks? I've had dwarves who weren't even near Master level make masterwork items!

So, what do I think needs to happen before this suggestion would be, in my opinion, A Good Idea?
1. Make dwarves more eager to work, or at l;east allow more micromanagement to compensate.
2. Make legendaries mean more than "Oh, I can make my rooms worth a crapton/buy the entire caravan with a bin of goods, but now my wealth is high enough that I need every dorfbuck to feed and protect my population." Let Legendaries craft magic arms and armor and stuff! Have them found worldwide guilds which bring your fortress prestige and power! Whatever! Legendary should be more than the end of skill advancement and a blinky sprite.
3. While we're at it, allow learning more from less. Allow kids, peasants, and so forth to watch friends and family work to gain skills! Allow masons to destroy stone practicing masonry, building up skill faster and cheaper than if they were making plain old stone blocks! As long as training can involve less reagents in exchange for less products and the same amounts of skill XP and time expended, great!

Quote from: knutor on January 06, 2012, 09:27:04 pm

I oppose this on principle as well. The simple fact, every dwarf knows, is that the moon up there and all its other strata spheric friends, were all mastercrafts made by a legendary dwarf cheese maker in a farm.  Hence, anything originating from those moons must be dwarfskind, not mankind. 

You're almost right. All of reality is in fact a 9 layer cake wrought by the finest cakesmith in the known universe who, in a fit of raw creation, baked a cake so supremely magnificent that the universe itself felt a bit shabby by comparison and swapped places with it.

I still say they were made out of stone and metal! And that things vaguely like spacemen in concept, and able to mod in actual spacemen, are good ideas.

Quote from: Vorthon on January 05, 2012, 04:58:53 pm

What about mysterious underground civs putting outposts on the surface? Like a drow raiding party (To use a somewhat stereotypical example) or something like that.

I Like that idea, personally... Maybe not... Drow, but more ancient things.. that aren't elves. Say maybe corrupted Dwarves. After all, elves can't dig, even dark elves. They just make wooden things out of magic. and carry elephants on donkeys. (and probably released the elephants on boatmurdered) Or something else entirely.

Hm, how about...svirneblin, or deugar, or mind flayers, or deep halflings (halflings with some dwarven traits, thus being like a combination of elf and dwarf but shorter), or (locates several D&D books) chokers (small, humanoid flexible aberrations that are VERY fast [old-edition haste]), or derros (small, insane dwarves), or driders (half-spider, half-drow, basically--it's complicated), ethereal filtchers (four-armed one-legged body-faced aberrations) with or without the ethereal, or ettercaps (spidermen, spare me the puns), or formians (ant-outsiders), or gargoyles, or some interpretation of ghouls, or gnolls (hyena-men), or grimlocks (eyeless humanoids with blindsight), or hobgoblins, or kobolds (oh, wait), or magmins (humanoid fire elementals), or orcs, or rakshasas (magical tiger-people), or skum (subterranean fish-people...things...more or less), or troglodytes (the D&D kind, which are basically smelly lizardmen), or xills (four-armed and dangerous, red-skinned people who lay eggs in people paralysed by their venom), or yuan-ti (humans magically infused with snake-essence [more or less], and their descendants), or abeils (bee-people), or avolakias (avolakian? Anyways, giant necromantic worm-like things [more or less] that can mimic humanoid form, have a poisonous bite and 8 claws, heals about as fast as D&D trolls, and prefer eating undead flesh), or desmodu (big gecko-ciliated bat-people that can't fly but have sheets of skin from wrist to ankle, that tame special kinds of bats for pets and mounts), or feldrakes (elves' dragon friends, for when elves won't dirty their hands), or grells (beaked, flying brains with paralytic tentacles and an insatiable hunger), or jermalaines (little rat-fey about the size of actual rats, with no magical abilities past speaking with normal rats), or meenlocks (tiny, clawed aberrations that transform other humanoids into meenlocks), or myconids (mushroom men that grow from cat-sized to giant-sized over their lifetime and gain various types of spores from "distress" and "rapport" to "hallucination" and "animation" [of undead]), or neogi (spider-like aberrations with snakey necks that have umber hulk minions and magically-bound slaves), or spellweavers (weird, six-armed humanoids with great magical skill), or thri-kreen (four-armed mantis warriors), or armands (armadillo-people), or nycters (small, winged batfolk), or shifters (part-lycans). Sorry about the wall of text, I just decided that a bunch of D&D critters would be cool to see in DF, especially since some would lead to the ability to mod in cooler stuff.

But...holy Armok, that's a big wall of text! Again, sorry.

I'll add a bunch of my TV Tropes links later, don't worry. Expect lots of links to "Out Monsters are Different." Maybe bold the monster names or something, to make them stand out.