Bay 12 Games Forum

So what you're suggesting is that humans be the "Americans" of the game....  I have nothing against someone who is born in America I'm just saying that you want them to enforce power on people through "relations"... ?...

If you put it that way, then...I have no idea what you mean. My idea is that they are stronger than the other races ohysically, so to avoid them essentially being DF orcs, they need to have a different temperament.

All those links are rather cliche to be honest. Humans are, in fact, inventors. They can be diplomats but when has ANYTHING ever been truly achieved by diplomatic success? If nothing else I would suggest that the Elven birthrate be lowered(Compensated by them being immortal) so as to not give them an advantage once magic is involved. Right now, the strength of the humans is their walls and their sheer number. Humans build forts and crap up the world with their buildings. They have this sort of order-esque thing going there. Not their politics or monetary incentives. They cant even craft. All they do is make enough food to feed the whole of HFS.

First: Cliche? So is dwarves digging underground homes and elves living in harmony with nature.
Second: "When has anything been achieved by diplomatic success?" The Louisiana Purchase comes to mind instantly. Pretty much any treaty that didn't just add a war accomplished something, and by a "diplomatic success."
Third: "The strength of humans is their number and walls." Elves currently beat humans on number by sheer immortality (and humans not being notably more fertile--although I agree that they SHOULD be), and dwarves' underground strongholds work better and require less work than walls. And, anyways, walls are nice, but they don't help much against dwarven war-machines, elven eagle cavalry, demonic power, etc.
Fourth: Thanks for your thoughts. I disagree with some of your ideas, but you should share them anyways.

Also, I terribly disliked that part about humans being fighters. Out of all the cliche stuff that was the worst. Come on! Do people seriously not understand that the true killers(In the real world) are the dudes who run the economy. The only reason people fight is because they were told to do so by some dumbf*** who just wanted economical goals. You were right when you said that Kobolds take a bit from each civ. They take their shittyness from humans.

*sigh* Only three races work metal: Humans, dwarves, and goblins. Humans are bigger than dwarves or goblins. Therefore, without factoring in magic/machinery, humans are significantly better at combat than other races, especially once the numbers advantage you mentioned earlier is implemented. Better warriors fight more. Simple.

The game is designed to have racial and even civilization culture be determined during world-gen.   Trying to pigeon-hole who does what just detracts from that.

Determined during world-gen, with the starting point being derived from information in the raws. What should that information say? That's what I'm trying to suggest.

I gleefully eliminated humans from my modded game, in part to make the other species have more to do, and also in part, because I always thought the presence of humans and "demi-humans" in a fantasy world led to too many unfortunate racial implications.

Plus, humans to me are the most boring parts of fantasy. They almost always take their cues from historical culture, and they're almost always white westerners with swords who run around killing, or atleast oppressing, everyone else that stands in their way. At best, they're someone for the elves to be snide to, since elves are too often portrayed as better-than-humans.
At worst, they're, well, humans.  And I'm a human, so who cares? Why should I bother about these dopey, superstitious, scientifically backwards, English people?

Normal races in abnormal worlds give people a "base point" to view the world from. Essentially.

Oh, and in my mod, kobolds eventually metamorphose into dragons, provided they live long enough.

That...is a rather good idea.

Well we do want to define SOMETHING that they MIGHT do or be like but there is always room for progress. I, however, am more bothered with elves in the game - They are cannibal midgets... Like... WTF!?

Our elves are worse than other worlds'. DF is to most fantasy worlds what Warhammer 40k is to most science fiction worlds: Everything is there, but twisted to a dark, gloomy form. Oddly enough, life expectancies are similar, too.

No, insane people can also, just with less success.

I think I just derailed a thread.

So what's stopping necromancers from having either/both abilities? Besides the current lack of code/plans, I mean..

Some necromancers could be old school death-diviners. Some could be zombie lords. Some could be able to resurrect the dead. Some could have multiple powers, or variations on them.

I'm fine with necromancer-ey types of people doing that kind of stuff, but neither want it to be part of the "default" necromancer "package," nor do I think that such people should all be lumped together. At least different kinds of necromancer (animator necromancer, revivalist necromancer, spirit-speaker necromancer...)

Slate 19, 15
A beekeeper was stung by--breaking news!--a bee!
A leatherworker was stung by--breaking news!--a bee! Actually, that's a bit more out-of-the-ordinary.

Slate 20, 15
A beekeeper was stung by--breaking news!--a bee!
A trapper was stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Slate 21, 15
A fisher was stung by--breaking news!--a bee!
Sorry to any future generations who read this, and think it's dull. You want to know what was going on in FirePunch these past few days and weeks aside from beestings? Not fucking much. A solid eighth of the population is currently doing nothing, having not gotten the memo that we WORK for our beer and meat here.

Slate 22, 15
The memo got to everyone. The perimeter wall should be up soon!
This is getting to be a LOT of managing I need to do, since I'm the manager, bookkeeper, brewer, engraver, and a planter of this fortress. I'm setting up a temporary office in the cryptic area.

Slate 23, 15
The office has been set up. It's an office, I guess.

Slate 28, 15
I start managing some work orders.
A blacksmith has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 1, 15
A militiaman has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Hey, I have a joke. Knock-knock. Who's there? Interrupting capybaraman. Interrupting capybaraman who? I need to suspend building this wall because a capybaraman interrupted me!

Let's see how they like the wrath of our militia! Our...completely unarmed, mostly unarmored militia...Well, quantity has its own quality, right?

Felsite 2, 15
Oh, yeah, we have axes!
The lazy woodcutter showed himself to be a decent neckcutter, too.

Felsite 4, 15
What the...?

Two men and a woman, acquaintances, are lying in a pile on some bare rock, claiming to be installing colonies in a hive but not actually moving.

Felsite 6, 15
They're still at it, despite one being hungry and another thirsty and drowsy. I tell them to quit it,  at which point they eat, drink, and locate another colony to hivernate.
Speaking of drinking, why isn't our brewer brewing? He's probably just writing in some stupid diary all the times that bees...oh, wait, I'm the brewer.

Felsite 7, 15
A fisher has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 8, 15
That same fisher has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!
A beekeeper has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 9, 15
A puppy has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee! Note to self: Open door for dog.

Felsite 10, 15
A farmer has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 11, 15
I have noticed that Iton has somehow walled himself into a small area on the cliff. Since she's unwilling to disturb her break to save herself, I have to have the wall broken down.

Felsite 12, 15
A farmer has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 13, 15
The rescue crew for Iton arrives. She is too asleep to thank him.

Elves have arrived! Let's see what they have...a cedar cage with some pig tails and rope reeds on it, presumably to symbolise our trading...some wooden arms and armor (which is better than none)... berries...a deer...gnomeblight?...Strawberry wine!...a horse...a cougar!...more gnomeblight...seeds...a short skirt?!?!...Fisher berry wine!...a wolf!...Longland beer!...Swamp whiskey!
We don't have a lot to trade, but I will get that booze and those critters.


Also, a fisher has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 14, 15
A farmer has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!
A fisher has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 15, 15
A bowyer has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 16, 15
The elves arrive at the trade depot. Iton is still “on break.”
A bowyer has been stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 17, 15
See that lever in the dining room, the red one?

Once it's complete, it'll close the front gate.

Felsite 18, 15
Iton has decided to trade.
-----
From the journal of Apasi Herotwig of the Cat of Immortals:
When my sister, Lema Glossedsystems, and I came here, everyone thought we were mad. We aren't. We intend to come, trade our wares, take the newest fashions and such, and go before they decide to kill us. Easy in, easy out, we make a fortune. Simple as that.
First we buy a sheep-wool cloak for three cages and a worm. I'm glad we got rid of that before it tainted our food supply. Next, a glove and a mitten for a wolf. They also bought a horse in exchange for an emerald cloak (I didn't know they knew how to make emerald dye! Good thing, Lema just lost hers.), a cap made from giant cave spider silk, a giant rat leather mitten, and a leather shoe. Next, a pig tail fiber hood and a loincloth for a short sword, a helm, and two high boots. Next, for some swamp whiskey and a fine short sword, we bought a cap and a matching set of mittens.
-----
Trading's going good so far.

A bowyer was stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 19, 15
We sell a sock and a bag for the commemorative chest (which will be put into one of my rooms) and a short sword.
A bowyer was stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

We buy a shield for a mitten. It seems to slightly placate them.
Also, the beekeepers tell me that the hives need more space.

Felsite 20, 15
A fisher was stung by--breaking news!--a bee!

Felsite 21, 15
We trade some more: A hood for a gauntlet and a chest, then a cloak and a sock for a longsword. Then, more to make them go away than anything, we stole a crutch. They say they'll leave soon.
[This is the first time I've ever siezed someone's goods! Usually, though, I have more trade goods by now.]

First we need to define "necromancer." As I see it, necromancers just live forever and animate dead stuff. They should be able to make zombie/flesh golem type monsters by stitching body parts together, and to raise dead rats and whatnot (remains) as pets, but that's about the limit of their power. Then there would be...uh...(locates online English-to-Greek translator)...uh...that doesn't use an Anglicized version of the letters like I thought it would...I give up, a [spirit]mancer could control and maybe create ghosts and other spirits, and priests could banish spirits of most (if not all) kinds, but not summon them, and maybe raise dwarves from the dead for real. Spirits might posess a dead body and give it a semblance of life, but if dwarves or other races could direct them to do so is an undecided matter.

You can't mod the number of dwarves you start with, it's hardcoded.

Quote from: Loud Whispers

1 kilograms of rocks = 1 kilograms of feathers

Same mass, not same weight.

Only if you want to get technical. Yes, if the kilo of rocks is in an area of different gravitational acceleration, their weights will be different. Let's assume for the sake of the argument that they aren't. Same weight.