Bay 12 Games Forum

A lot of interesting points have been made. Unfortunately, it keeps seeming to come back to the case of the children.
Are goblins cruel toward other races because they're pure evil, or because they see them as too far gone to be helped? Are they truly doing what's right, or are they simply overzealous and misinformed?
They may see torture as acceptable, but we can't say if that is because they enjoy it, or they feel it is the only way to get vital information. We can say they are just evil by nature, but then again the other races aren't exactly in line for a Nobel Peace Prize either.

Every race does what it thinks is right. No one, goblin or otherwise, will do something it knows is wrong without some strong pressure. "The demons?" Only for so long; they are few in number, and a single dictator who cannot get the approval of at least the military of a nation will soon lose his country except for the part immediately surrounding his person.



No sentient being will willingly go against its morals. In addition, any society whose morals do not promote a community (by outlawing theft, murder, etc) will never get beyond the band stage of organization, if it gets that far, because any attempt at unity will last only as long as a charismatic leader could force his citizens to go against their moral grain for the good of the group. It wouldn't last. Therefore, goblins must have started with ethics that allow for community cohesion. They don't now, at least it seems so, and their societies have not fallen apart. Therefore, all must not be as it seems. They have not forsaken moral sense, they have just admitted that, to promote their agenda of The Greater Good, they must abandon their hopes of only doing good. Indeed, they know themselves to be better than the dwarves, who claim to be kinder yet beat goblin POWs with wooden weapons for "training." At least the goblins are honest about their shortcomings.
...There isn't any chance that I can get this thread back on topic all on my own, is there?

Have you done arena-testing to see how good padded stuff is?

Wow. I'm glad I was wrong, which is kinda weird...anyways, glad to see you're about to get the queen.

Idea: If and when an artifact adamantine (non-blunt) or platinum (blunt) weapon is made, equip the queen with it and a lot of artifact/masterful steel armor, have her train for a few years (or more, unil she reaches legendary in all useful skills), and unleash her dwarven fury on whomever is foolish enough to invade Combatbronze! From a nice, safe area with no sudden drops or nearby deep pools, or course.

EDIT: What are those red asterisks above the queen's chambers?

Creatures falling together don't cushion each other.

Caveins knock creatures that started on the same tile, into the same tile.

If it dies, it dies. Don't make everyone thinks that there might actually be a new upda...wait, I'm doing that now, too, aren't I?

[wishes there was a facepalm smiley]

Nice.

I would like a tileset that, instead of the square corners that curses smoothed/constructed walls have, instead has diagonal/curved edges.
Thanks to anyone who does so.

Once, goblins were kind beings, living only to further the good of the world. They were outmatched by the immortal elves, the advanced dwarves, and the numerous humans. Only the unintelligent kobolds were weak enough to be receptive to the goblins, and they were too scattered and ununited to help in any way.
Then, some being came to them, and offered them gifts. They would live in constant pain, but would never die and would be able to create obsidian towers and iron tools. This was judged as an acceptable sacrifice to the goblins, however, who mostly grew used to the pain.

The ones who made the pact, that is.

The next generation of goblins was twisted more by the Pact, in mind and body. Instead of fair, pale skin, these Pact-Twisted infants were marked by green flesh and worse deformities. These mutants, called Abominations, misinterpreted "The Greater Good" as "Good for Goblins" and resented their elders for for the curse brought on them, and lacked any true morals. The old generation was killed, and the new generation took up the mantle. They began to loot and burn the surrounding lands, and with their dark powers and iron weapons, they expanded their power. The Abominations did not expect their downfall: Their parents.
The slain generation had been left out on the ground to rot and be eaten by birds, and their spirits were not put to rest. These spirits finally chose to possess the bodies of their unborn grandchildren. This generation resembled a blend of the Ancient Goblins and the Abominations, and were more or less identical to modern goblins. While they kept some of their parents' ways of looting and kidnapping, these New Goblins had--and have--the altruistic mindset that governed the Ancient Goblins. While they don't have the power of the Abominations, the New Goblins do not age. The Abominations mostly died, in battle at the hands of the New Goblins, but others fled deeper than any race had ever gone. They bred with the demons of that foul place, and some of these humanoid half-demons escaped back to the surface to govern their New Goblin cousins or even humans, who were the least affected by the wars the Abominations waged. Now, as dwarves dig deeper and deeper, they risk finding the dark secrets of the goblins' immortality and the death that they will bring to them...