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Messages - Urist Da Vinci

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2311
Same table as before, but I have additional data for large size creatures, as well as some vague examples of creatures in that size range. I gather data by drowning the cows in arena mode, and then using the 'k-a' butcher command, so no butcher skill was involved. Bodies that were killed by soldiers or hunters are often missing parts.

Code: [Select]
SIZE            500 1000 1900 2000 5000 7000 10000 15000 20000 30000 50000 100000 200000 500000 750000 1000000 1500000 1750000 2000000 3000000 5000000 10000000 25000000

i.e.            rabbit        chicken        marmot      gazelle     goat  warthog       horse  yak    w.buffalo                       rhino   elephnt     whales dragon

SKULL             1    1    1    1    1    1     1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1      1       1       1       1       1       1       1        1        1
MEAT                        2    6    6    7     7     7     8     8     8      9      9     11     13      21      30      38      41      64     105      214      539
FAT                         2    6    6    7     7     7     8     8     8      8      8      8      8       8       8       8      10      16      28       60      151
SKIN                        1    1    1    1     1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1      1       1       1       1       1       1       1        1        1
BONE                             4    4    4     4     6    10    10    10     16     16     16     16      20      24      28      28      40      58      114      301
INTESTINES      ___ ___  ___  ___     1    1     1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1      2       3       5       6       7      10      17       35       89
BRAIN                                            1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1      1       1       1       2       2       3       5       11       29
LUNG                                             2     2     2     2     2      2      2      2      2       2       2       4       4       6      10       22       58
LIVER                                            1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1      1       1       1       2       2       3       5       11       29
TRIPE                                            1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1      1       1       1       2       2       3       5       11       29
NERVOUS TISSUE  ___ ___  ___  ___  ___  ___  ___       1     1     1     1      1      1      1      1       1       1       1       1       1       1        1        1
HOOF                                                   4     4     4     4      4      4      4      4       4       4       4       4       8      12       28       68
HEART                                                        1     1     1      1      1      1      1       1       1       1       1       1       2        5       14
SWEETBREAD                                                   1     1     1      1      1      1      1       1       1       1       1       1       2        5       14
SPLEEN                                                       1     1     1      1      1      1      1       1       1       1       1       1       2        5       14
KIDNEY          ___ ___  ___  ___  ___  ___  ___   ___       2     2     2      2      2      2      2       2       2       2       2       2       4       10       28
HORN                                                         2     2     2      2      2      2      2       2       2       2       2       2       2        4       14
CARTILAGE                                                                              1      1      1       1       1       1       1       1       1        1        1
HAIR                                                                                   1      1      1       1       1       1       1       1       1        1        1
EYE                                                                                           2      2       2       2       2       2       2       2        2        2
TOOTH           ___ ___  ___  ___  ___  ___  ___   ___   ___   ___   ___   ___    ___    ___    ___    ___     ___           1       1       1       1        1        1


...
In very large animals, each body part may yield more than one unit of tissue.  This appears to be nonlinear - it doesn't start happening until you get to quite large creatures.  For a creature in the normal size range of a cow or most other domestic animals, each body part still gives at most one unit of meat/fat/bone/whatever.
...

I used your RELSIZE method on the new data. Similar to how the appearance threshold is 185, the large creature threshold for getting things like brain[2] is 50000 (fifty thousand or 50,000).

Unrelated:
Funny how a dwarf butcher will divide an animal's meat into pieces ranging from 185g to 50kg each, but the resulting stack of meat weighs 2.1 kg per piece. The stack of meat from an adult groundhog weighs more than the groundhog does alive.

2312
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: These rabbits are made of air
« on: February 23, 2011, 04:24:31 am »
A link to a post I just made on the modding side, regarding science I did on this issue.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78108.0

TL;DR - critters need to be over size 2000 to return any bones, meat, or fat. This does not include rabbits or cavy, but a 2-year chicken or turkey is fine.

2313
Posting research results here since it requires modding experience to understand.

In order to solve the rabbit/cavy skull issue, I modded cows to be exactly certain sizes, and then butchered them. The results are nonlinear, but it appears that 3 effects are at work.

Some parts, like the skin or skull or spine nervous tissue, only appear in 1 piece.

There is some size cutoff, after which a body part becomes big enough to appear. A creature has to be over size 2000 when butchered to give anything other than a skull. It looks like goats are the most efficient grazer animal to farm for meat, in terms of minimizing grass usage while maximizing meat produced.

Dwarves have more meat than a cow of the same size because they have fingers, toes, and other features. The number or scale of body parts plays a role in the butchering returns. The cow results are typical for most quadrupedal animals.

Code: [Select]
SIZE            500 1000 1900 2000 5000 7000 10000 15000 20000 30000 50000 100000 200000 500000 1000000 25000000

SKULL             1    1    1    1    1    1     1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1       1        1
MEAT                        2    6    6    7     7     7     8     8     8      9      9     11      21      539
FAT                         2    6    6    7     7     7     8     8     8      8      8      8       8      151
SKIN                        1    1    1    1     1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1       1        1
BONE                             4    4    4     4     6    10    10    10     16     16     16      20      301
INTESTINES                            1    1     1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1       3       89
BRAIN                                            1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1       1       29
LUNG                                             2     2     2     2     2      2      2      2       2       58
LIVER                                            1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1       1       29
TRIPE                                            1     1     1     1     1      1      1      1       1       29
NERVOUS TISSUE                                         1     1     1     1      1      1      1       1        1
HOOF                                                   4     4     4     4      4      4      4       4       68
HEART                                                        1     1     1      1      1      1       1       14
SWEETBREAD                                                   1     1     1      1      1      1       1       14
SPLEEN                                                       1     1     1      1      1      1       1       14
KIDNEY                                                       2     2     2      2      2      2       2       28
HORN                                                         2     2     2      2      2      2       2       14
CARTILAGE                                                                              1      1       1        1
HAIR                                                                                   1      1       1        1
EYE                                                                                           2       2        2
TOOTH                                                                                                          1

2314
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: New 3D fort layout (diagonal ramp hallways!)
« on: February 23, 2011, 12:28:25 am »
Never mind.  After diagramming it out here I see how we can leave one block of wall between the pod arms to keep them separate.  Still, the dwarfs need to walk in a circle around the down ramps so it isn't saving much steps compared to regular stairs.

My original idea was that a multi-floor area would be built at the end of each ramp hallway, so there would be no more down ramps.

If you want to do it that way, put hatches over the down ramps. Dwarves could either open the hatch and go down, or just walk over the top of the hatches. The only issue that arises is that a dwarf can open the hatch while another dwarf is standing on it. ;D Luckily, a 1z fall only stuns creatures, and won't cause injury. Even if the hallway was heavily trafficked, the only problem you would notice would be the occasional job interruption.


2315
DF Suggestions / Don't go into the long grass! (stealth related)
« on: February 22, 2011, 11:34:32 pm »
Since the game now tracks grass height, how about modifying the stealth skill by the tile type a stealth unit is standing on? We'll assume that stealth is possible for any type of terrain, but that being surrounded by smoothed walls, smoothed or paved floors, and open space does compromise stealth. Creatures would still not be revealed from stealth unless spotted. Long, uncut, ungrazed grass should provide a decent stealth bonus, or perhaps even grant basic stealth to creatures that otherwise wouldn't have it.

Inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCuDqrpYQQE

2316
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Above-ground Dwarves
« on: February 22, 2011, 10:56:56 pm »
You can channel a 2-tile-wide dry moat around your desired construction site and remove the ramps from one side within the first year to provide the same ambush-channeling effect as a wall. It only doesn't protect against archers.

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Noise
Workshops don't produce noise.

2317
If you make a dedicated building designer (architect), you will want to put the construction materials near the construction site. That is because the architect carries all building materials to the site, does the design, then lets a mason/carpenter/metalsmith finish the job. He will really hold up projects if he has to run around a lot.

If you don't want to have a dedicated building designer, then enable architect on all of your carpenters and masons.

If you want to powerlevel an architect, mine out a large room underground. Disable all mason labors on all dwarves, and then order a lot of support columns built in the room. The architect will run around designing them, and then you can cancel the jobs and repeat.

2318
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Masons and stone furniture?
« on: February 22, 2011, 10:29:36 pm »
It takes a different kind of skill to be able to chisel a flat table or door out of rock.

Rock cabinets and rock grates are still a mystery to me. Do they glue the pieces together or something?

2319
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: External Fort Design: The Ramp
« on: February 22, 2011, 10:15:05 pm »
Look in my signature for the stealth detection science.

TL;DR - Stealth can be detected only as far as 3 tiles away.

2320
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: New 3D fort layout (diagonal ramp hallways!)
« on: February 22, 2011, 08:33:59 pm »
Of course, I also rather like having my nodes have a means of accessing one another directly, even if this goes against the whole "central staircase" mentality, which I've never really enjoyed, anyway.  You give an access tunnel from the woodcutter's (upper floor) node to the magma forge's (lower floor) node, and just make it only be part of a small number of dwarves' burrows.

Yeah, some of the industries have overlap, so you might want a shortcut for special workers. In case of invasion and security lockdown/flooding, secondary travel hallways would be useful. I usually make wood burning part of the wood industry so it goes near a wood stockpile, but it makes charcoal and ash for other industries.

If you think about it, dwarves would only use the secondary shortcuts between nodes in this design if they were going to another industry's node, or if they were going to a bedroom node. If they wanted food/drink, they would go to the center.

Since the edges are down ramps how can you dig out the outer "pods" so that they will still be accessible by dwarfs and not mess up the operation of the ramps below them?
Do you have an example of this design with the pods dug out?

I don't understand your first question. Once you think your 3D hallways are long enough from the core, you can build rooms however you want at the end.

2321
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: These rabbits are made of air
« on: February 22, 2011, 08:17:48 pm »
<Insert Monty Python reference here>

New megabeast: Vorpal rabbit
prefstring: nasty, big, pointy teeth

2322
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Neverending burning plump helmet man.
« on: February 22, 2011, 03:50:18 am »
Did some raw digging, and their mushroom flesh doesn't have a melting or boiling point. It does have ignite and heatdam points, so they will burn, as observed. They don't have any organs. They can also live for 60-80 years, so they'll be down there a long time unless they burn up completely. They can learn and open doors, its kind of creepy that dwarves would eat them.

2323
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Defending a fort, with no metal ores
« on: February 22, 2011, 03:40:20 am »
Use scheduling and rotating squads to ensure that the watchtowers are always manned by marksdwarves.

2324
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Defending a fort, with no metal ores
« on: February 21, 2011, 10:33:02 pm »
Assign crossbows and bolts to your haulers (non-miners/woodcutters) to make them into an untrained, reserve force. At least they won't be helpless.

2325
I was lazy and decided to do a cave in for my moat so my dabbling miner/bowyer dies as expected so as I'm looking through the reports of him dieing it says caught in a cloud of boiling magma! This is on Z-level 2 no were near magma. Why did this happen.
Don't worry, it's a known bug. The bowyer was hit by rock dust from the cave-in, but the dust uses the "gas" name of rock rather than the "powder" name. It isn't actually hot, but it can fling them through the air with some force.

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