Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: hector13 on October 16, 2016, 02:45:44 pm

Scottish folks have realized that British parties aren't going to look out for their interests.

Even had Labour won every single seat in Scotland, Scotland would've had a Tory government that they didn't vote for. I'm not sure how you can say with a straight face that Scottish voters ruined any chance of having a non-Tory government.

Then the union breaks.

People won't vote for a Labour that won't be able to support the British people. It would've been an SNP-Labour coalition government, with SNP deciding all the terms.

That was certainly the rhetoric from the Tories at the time, which England fell for hook, line and sinker.

I recall being in Lincoln a few weeks prior to the election, and seeing Tory ads with Eddie in Salmond's shirt pocket.

Kinda shows you how much UK parties care about Scotland, since Salmond had stepped aside months prior, with Sturgeon as the leader at the time.

Quote from: hector13 on October 16, 2016, 02:45:44 pm

Germany is not the EU. I don't think they have enough sway to influence enough of the other 26 members to allow the UK access without conditions - specifically the Four Freedoms - and even if they did, there are non-EU member countries in the EEC who will probably then demand the same treatment.

Merkel also said shortly after the referendum that Germany wouldn't accept the UK having access to the single market sans Four Freedoms.

Germany has a ridiculously large amount of influence within the EU. Then again, one of the principle problems with the EU is that it's impossible to understand what the hell is going to happen considering how opaque it is to outsiders (and, honestly, to insiders as well).

Merkel has said a lot of things through the years, including that multiculturalism has failed. She's a politician, nothing more.

So's May, and everyone else involved in Brexit. They all have their jobs to think about pre- and post-Brexit.

The reality is that the EU has a lot more to lose by giving the UK a good deal than they will by, as you say, giving them a boot up the arse for leaving the club.

The prominence of political parties that either want to weaken the EU or have their country outright leave it means an example needs to be made.

Scotland is basically autonomous now anyway. They have their own system of parliament which determines both Scottish and English (British) matters. That's one of the main reasons their deficit is fucking crazily high.

That's why they are being taken out of the EU against their will and have a Tory government they didn't vote for, then? Autonomy ftw.

Scotland has about 9% of the MPs in parliament, whereas England has ~82%. Scottish MPs can cast deciding votes every now and again, they certainly have no way of controlling it.

Then we can argue that the continued use of the Barnett formula means that changes in spending in England influence levels of spending in the rUK, including Scotland, meaning that while the things they vote on might only directly affecting England in regards to policy, they will indirectly affect Scotland regarding pennies.

Quote from: Sheb on October 16, 2016, 11:16:22 am

Quote from: Codician on October 16, 2016, 07:35:05 am

Quote from: Sheb on October 13, 2016, 10:42:23 am

Here we go again. Sturgeon announce new Scotxit referendum.

Scotland has a £15bil annual deficit paid for by British taxes. I'd be very shocked if Sturgeon actually wanted to get out of the UK, more likely just wants to make a noise and get more money for Scotland.

The UK as a whole as a budget deficit of £170 billion. Scotland's account for about 8% of the UK's population IIRC, so their share of the current deficit is around £ 13 billion.

I don't know where you got £170bil from. UK has a budget deficit of £67.6bil (although apparently it's only maybe £19~bil).

So, the UK's deficit is 10~%. Scotland deficit is 25%.

Or 4% and 9.5%, respectively. Where are you getting your numbers?

Quote from: Starver on October 16, 2016, 11:29:40 am

Not the only reason to/not to leave, but it's similar across most of the field.  (Scotland's free tuition/prescriptions aren't even something it gains from the UK, BTW. and if it is in poorer financial status than E+W¹ then it will become a net beneficiary the way 'we' complained about being a net donor to the EU pot..) . Given Scotland's state as pretty much civilised and pretty much English-speaking, it'd indeed make a good surrogate for London's environs, in many ways. If Europe doesn't splinter, I could actually see it happy to assiimilate Scotland... A bit of effort needed, but could be deemed worth it to further snub the hostile elements of 'Westmister', at the very least.

Scotland being (probably) assimilated by the EU is another major problem of the EU. It will just be another Greece with a huge debt sink and no way to really fix the problem.

What are your thoughts on the UK likely losing free (in the sense of no tariffs or the like) access to one of the largest open markets in the world?

Quote from: Akura on October 16, 2016, 10:16:12 am

One of the laundromat TVs has Ancient Aliens on. I'm not close enough to hear, but I can tell it's a load of crackpot crap. The intro looked like "OMG! The Mars Rover took a B/W photo of what may be a vaguely pyramid-shaped rock in the distance! It must be aliens!"

The next part looked as though they were comparing the human brain's shape to the shape of planet Earth, and a 3D model of the neuron map to the galaxy, therefore ALIENS! People make money on this stuff?

I'm certain you hold equally nutty beliefs. If you are bothered by the Ancient Aliens, be comforted by the knowledge that many people are ignorant and dis-informed, so it should be possible to educate.

'cept there've been studies that have show that providing people with evidence contrary to their beliefs actually makes them believe their side more.

Fackin' weirdos.

I remember the good ol' days when it was top down shooting, and you only had a choice of your fists, a pistol and a machine gun. You only had 1HP too!

It's fine now, he didn't go to sleep last night and he's going to bed now XD
Thanks for that image

It's a little complicated Teneb...  We were very close for a long time, when we didn't feel like we had anyone else.  But that means "I can't stand to listen to your opinion" is something of a betrayal.  We're supposed to always be there to listen.

Which is a small price to pay, really.  We've had some vicious arguments but it's worth it to be able to talk to him about literally anything personal.

Basically our (civil) argument went on long enough that I established my willingness to listen and debate, then I begged off.  No offense there, and it was a pretty good debate (if frustrating).

'Tis silly. What of the "I would rather not have this conversation right now variety"? Surely ignoring the other party's feelings is also a betrayal?

Quote from: Calidovi on October 14, 2016, 06:38:28 pm

the guy banned after using too many slurs

i forgot his name

Dicks out for OrangeWizard.

I'm not sure the EU has anything to save face about. The UK got quite a bit of special treatment while they were in the EU, and I don't think EU leaders want the precedent for a country leaving to be that the leaver gets a good deal.