Bay 12 Games Forum

What do you think of my plan Fluffe?

Instead of talking past each other, talk about The Plan.

My motivation and ability to read the game is clearly not a property of my person :p

Neither of the things I referred to were on the merits of my plan. Your comments were probably not that as hominem but it’s late so I’m allowed to get that wrong.

Like… I want to win the game. Killing Toony gets us closer to that, but doesn’t lead us to the next step.

He’s either not Lenglon’s teammate, so we still have two mafiakills in the night game, or he is her buddy and there’d be one team that can focus solely on murdering town if we take him out.

PPE:

Quote from: hector13 on April 24, 2023, 12:57:46 am

Flipping one of you will either give us the other scum team - and thus the game

Again, you can only think this if you think Toony is Lenglon's partner. Otherwise, Lenglon's partner would be in the wind.

I know, that’s why I explore the idea of you being town in the rest of it, and why you being town is the bigger part: if you’re scum, ggwp.

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or another confirmed town for D3 to grow our burgeoning town core.

This is at least sound, but doesn't seem worth it to me when there are up to three scum players unknown (if Toony is indeed framed) and certainly two. Also I'll probably just get killed.

If there are three scum left, at worst, if nobody dies they’ll be within the five unconfirmed players. 60% chance if we do it randomly.

Decent odds that.

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The two investigative roles also give us information on two more players, so confirming the alignments of half the town or more.

It's a lot to assume they will survive the night, not be blocked or redirected, and there isn't a framer.

It’s also a lot to assume any or all of that.

Egan has at least claimed to be unbussable/unredirectable.

Framers only work if they target someone being inspected. Regardless we have no evidence there’s one in the game beyond the protestations of the person inspected as scum.

You’ve claimed a protect, why not use it on Egan? NQT and Toony appear to have tracks. Toony wants to find the other team as much as we do. They can’t all get killed.

There are other unclaimed actions we don’t know about too. It’s a lot to assume they won’t be able to help in the night, though as I argued above, they also might not.

I think we’ve had action claims from me, you, Jim, Toony, NQT, Egan, Cat, and juicebox. Nobody has reported molestation.

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I notice you’re not attacking the merits of the idea, rather making ad hominem arguements or saying town would lose even if you’re scum.

If you mean me, I didn't make any ad hominem argument. I didn't go deeply into the merits of the idea, but now I did, okay?

You didn’t make ad hominem attacks, that were Jim re:my motivations.

No plan is going to be perfect, but the risks in this one are outweighed by the benefits:

Town either wins when you or Jim flip, or most of if not all the way to winning D3.

Nah bro your thought processes are a bit alien to me for whatever reason to the point I think you’re a machine, and think I might be somewhat autistic too so other people’s motivations are… tricky, but all that’s not important right now.

My idea is brilliant.

I also feel like I’m coming across a bit like FoU when he has his ideas, which is… probably a bad thing, but if this is how he feels when he has then I can understand why he is so goddamn stubborn.

Jesus H, Max, I have rarely seen you make a post with so much wrong in it.

In reverse order:

Jack’s first post of the game was basically “I’m not going to play this game”, which is entirely pointless, and frankly ticked me off. I tried to get him to play the game, even asked him who I should vote for at one point, all for naught. The one thing that really stood out for me was he acknowledged that he shouldn’t rely on his playing shite to be townread. If a player is aware of their meta to that degree, does that meta cease to work as a means to read them? Abso-bloody-lutely.

I never once said Tric was scum on D1. I had him in my scum reads at one point (and even said he probably shouldn’t be in them at the time!) solely because you were brown-nosing Jim the entire day, and I had huge issue with Jim’s reliance on meta to read Tric, then getting upset with FoU for disagreeing with that meta read, then meta-reading FoU as scum to justify it.

Your petty pride is not and was not my problem. See above on my thoughts regarding EJ’s panicking meta, which we discussed at the time.

As above again, your petty pride is not my problem. I did not challenge you to a game of chicken, those were your words, not mine, and I never acknowledged that game once. What I acknowledged was your strong read on EJ being completely at odds with whatever nonsense you were pulling at the time: as you have made abundantly clear, that game of chicken was between you and your pride, it had nothing to do with me. I said the 42 minute thing because, as we both know and as actually happened, things could very easily change over the course of that time. Consequently, whatever game of chicken you were playing I wasn’t even expecting to matter before that 42 minutes was up.

Further to that, we now know thanks to Lenglon via KW and FoU/Egan, that the scum teams are probably aware that there’s another scum team they need to deal with, so scum!you may in a more traditional game have had no reason to move your vote from a strong townread, but it doesn’t really move you toward your ultimate goal of winning the game in this one. You’d need to hit scum just as much as town do to win this one bud.

I will acknowledge that calling you a coward was emotional,  but that was because I was pissed off that somehow I was getting pushed toward being eliminated, and was expecting you with your balls of steel to not falter in your own personal game of chicken.

I wasn’t casting aspersions because I was genuinely curious what was up there… but now I’m not so sure.

TL;dr

EJ is aware of their meta, so meta reads don’t work on them now.

I said Tric was scum maybe all of one time D1, as an associative read of Max and Jim who I felt were scum.

Max challenged himself to a game of chicken with himself and lost.

Max claiming scum!Max wouldn’t be bothered about eliminating a strong townread doesn’t work in a game with two scum teams because he would need to eliminate the opposing team as much as town.

Huh, maybe I can do brevity after all…

So yeah, I’ll get pissed off for no reason to and suggest maybe another idea to explore is Max and Jim fakeclaiming as scum. They’ve already found the other team, might as well get their biggest town problem out of the way by taking out the biggest voting bloc.

Eurgh why do you guys leave it so late to post? It’s almost like you have lives and loves outside of mafia or something.

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T’be fair I was waiting for Toony to post as I suspected he would have me as his top scumread.

I’ve been thinking, mostly about me. Narcissus personified eh? Anyway, If Toony’s team were about to be eliminated it wouldn’t matter how many votes I had, they’re not going to win. Consequently, I don’t think Lenglon and Toony were partners, because Toony is interested in taking me out of the game.

Further to that point, the scum team that opposes Toony wants him taken out during the day, so they can save their mafiakills for the town without having to put effort into manipulating the town to murder each other.

I propose a ballsy move, that we keep Toony alive today so he has to get killed in the night by the opposing team. That way we actually spend the day not being wholly distracted by inspect results, and finding the scum still left during the day, while they murder each other by night.

Toony’s also a clever sausage, and he knows he has to find the other team, so, me aside in that, maybe his analysis actually has some truth to it?

Something to consider anyway, there’s not much other discussion going on, presumably because of inspect results and it’s the weekend.

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Max what was up with you at day end D1? You don’t get worked up, and you don’t bottle out of silly games like Chicken. What were you doing?