Bay 12 Games Forum

Why you answerin’ questions for other people eh? Totes scum. /s

I should be voting so I guess I’ll back up my stuff on NQT.

*10 hours later*

notquitethere

Quote from: TricMagic on April 18, 2023, 03:52:38 pm

EuchreJack, back up your words with evidence.

My words are backed by nuclear hats.

Now I wish I sent in Nuclear Ghandi.

You seem to have a different recollection of that game than I do. I lost that game for my team N1, and I think it took ‘til D4 for town to realize it. The reason I went after you was because everyone else was mechanically cleared, and the fact you thought it was a thunderdome is testament to the play of my team.

If you want to thunderdome now I’m pretty sure I could make zero posts between now and the end of the day, and I’d still win. That’s how badly you’ve played.

Equally so, both the people you want to sheep have me as a scumread. Fire away if you want, I’ve been one of the most prolific posters of the day, there’s plenty enough evidence to build a case if you think I’ve played horseshit. I won’t even argue against it.

Quote from: webadict on April 17, 2023, 07:55:43 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 17, 2023, 07:54:03 pm

I’m voting EuchreJack, not Egan.

Also, that doesn’t seem to include EuchreJack’s double vote, ‘cause you said at day start 9 would hammer, not 8.

Whoops.  And whoops, let's see what's happening there.

EDIT:  >:|  Vote people's names, or I'm not fixing it next time!

Eurgh fine, I’ll spend an extra 10 hours laboriously typing out people’s names on my phone because mamobo needs to be told all the things, including the ones you can’t think of, gawd.

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juicebox gets what I mean about EJ, kudos to them. I like a lot about this post, I guess my biggest complaint is it’s incomplete. It follows my thinking on the players mentioned in it, with the exception of NQT, and feeling of the two, FoU is probably the more likely to be bad than Max.

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Toony

Quote from: EuchreJack on April 17, 2023, 03:14:55 pm

My too-busy-to-read-well reads:
I like Tric & Max
Therefore, I don't like Fallacy, since he seems to be pushing shitty reasons.

I agree.

Quote from: hector13 on April 17, 2023, 03:48:22 pm

EJ good job on completely ignoring me pointing out the flaws in your gameplan.
...
Give me one good reason why we shouldn’t get rid of you when your only inclination appears to be Jim or Toony’s sock-puppet.

Hey hey, Jack has had this "busy with work" attitude lately in a lot of games. It does make it harder for me to read him, but I agree with his cursory reads and it's probably okay if he sheep votes me or Jim. I think the fact he's trying to determine between the two of us to sheep shows some level of effort/scrutiny.

I don't really like your pursuit on Jack.

It’s not so much a pursuit as having had enough of what he does. He’s played plenty of games that he should be able to think for himself but he always tries to follow you, Jim, or webadict, and I don’t get it.

That might be more of a meta thing, but just taking this game into consideration, the bare minimum he should be doing if he intends to follow you or Jim is to, you know, actually interact with y’all, and he hasn’t. If he has enough time to post, he has enough time to ask one or both of you a question, but he’s relying on other people (in a game about deduction and manipulation!) to do that work for him, and then relying on you and/or Jim to not be scum to use what could be a powerful boon or a fuckhuge liability for town if he gets it wrong.

I get that it’s hard, but doing something and getting it wrong is a whole lot better than doing nothing at all.

Town
Tric - "Web forgot to PM me my role"
Curious Cat - "what is FoS?"

Townlean
Egan - they're keeping a sketchbook, a sketchbook! effort town points
NQT - is busy but I'm willing to believe the posts they've done are genuine, I also fully believe they submitted town as prefered alignment
Max - seems to want to help, claims uninspectable but they always do this
juicebox - seems to be trying like Egan but maybe not as convincing, I get townie vibes
Fluffe - I've never seen as mafia, they are acting just like they have in the other two games I've played with them on D1 though
Knightwing - has no idea what is going on

Neutral
Jim - lazy, need more than their first post (which I liked)
Jack - don't have a strong read, he's been pretty aloof, I need some emotion and excitement and passion
Lenglon - don't know, I forgot they did a lot of roleplaying in Web's other game and it was really easy to read them in that game but they also immediately claimed third-party in that game as well

Suspicious
Hector - showing a lot of effort, but it's Hector and I've been tricked constantly by him
Toaster - same boat as Hector
FoU - at odds with Max, also claims uninspectable like with Max, I believe them less


Thoughts:

I don't like Hector's attack of Jack.

I don't like Toaster and FoU's attack of Tric.

I'm more confident Tric is town (or not mafia) than Jack, so I find FoU and Toaster more suspect than Hector currently.

If I may for a moment… *smarm*

Your read on me is horseshit though. It’s basically “hector’a a good player”, and while I *smarm* at that, It’s a pretty poor reaaon for scumreading someone, and I absolutely stand by my distaste of what EJ is doing. Not quite as bad as scum!FoU in NQT‘s (I think] most recent game in which his read on me was “hector’s a scawy tigew” but we’re skirting very close to it, guy.

It’s also annoying because I agree with your read on Toaster, insofar as (why isn’t that all one word?) they’re wanting to vote Tric, because I read Tric as either town or TP, and… really my priority should be on figuring out FoU and Max but I don’t want FoU to be scum and Max is as easy to read as a technical manual in the dark. *sigh* my gut tells me FoU is the less likely of the two to be town.

In saying that, the rest of your list is pretty good. Lenglon should be higher, maybe still neutral though - I like the aggressiveness, it’s similar to how she was as town-ally in that other game, but posting help for the newer players is something I’ve used to active-lurk in the past - and NQT lower, possibly also in the neutral pile, and it’s about right.

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt for the time being because my main gripe with you is over your read of me, and I have fooled you in the past, so I guess I get it. Looking forward to seeing what you do going forward…

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Lenglon

A_Curious_Cat   - new player, correctly identified that the early pressure put on them was a trap, incorrectly reacted to the trap with scummy caution instead of townie boldness. If they were a vet I'd think they were scum. They aren't a vet. So have them as *wait and see*
Egan_BW        - few posts but solid content in them. Clear and understandable readslist. Town.
EuchreJack     - doublevoter that defers their votes instead of using them to apply pressure and scumhunt. What. likely scum.
FallacyofUrist - repeated sharp interactions. Immediately understood what I was doing in RVS and played off it to scumtest Cat. Town.
Fluffe9911     - No Content of note.
hector13       - heavy activity that I haven't taken the time to read in full because large posts. temporary null-read while I correct that error.
Jim Groovester - ZZZzzzz
juicebox       - late entry with solid content once they read the thread. likely town but not enough content to be comfortable.
Knightwing64   - who?
Lenglon        - me!
Maximum Spin   - I never read max correctly, but right now I have an extremely strong "town" vibe from them emotionally. logic say null, emotion says town.
notquitethere  - standard "I do stuff on Day 2" statements, but
Toaster        - very independent. I don't fully agree with their reasoning but I can generally follow it and there's nothing particularly wrong about it. lean town.
ToonyMan       - inconsistent. I don't feel like their reasons for switching between opinions are fully clear, which kinda bugs me. Might be putting on a facade to manipulate, but I don't see who's being manipulated.
TricMagic      - Hat? hat! hat hat hat. hat hat? hat hat hat. hat.

Decent enough reads list, not too much wrong I can see here other than Toaster, and probably FoU. You’re trying to refine some of your reads, so I think I don’t need to do too much with your slot for the time being, other than ask what you’re seeing about Toaster that makes you think they’re town?

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Toaster

It could just be that we’ve all been exposed to Tric’s particular brand of play to the point of it being kinda blah now, but what is it that bothers you about Tric that is unique to Tric? We’ve got EJ threatening to sheep two players without putting in the work to figure out those two players, the newer players kinda coasting along and not doing a whole lot (understandably perhaps, but I’d still like to see some effort) and Lenglon and FoU kinda-sorta active lurking by offering Cat some hints and tips.

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Jim with a big post, says the hypocrite.

There is an ulterior motive to me voting EJ (in addition to my dislike of his play) which… has either revealed something chilling or has backfired.

However, I would argue that EJ’s utility is an important factor in the game. He has a L-L-L-LYLO BREAKER in his double vote. Would you like it to be in the hands of someone who has put effort into the game and has a good grasp of it, or someone who has coasted through on someone else’s coattails and has a panic at the end?

If this were anything other than D1 I’d be less inclined to put him forward as a possible candidate now, when a mislynch-

Ah you know what forget it my thought process is all on about mislynching now rather than later which means my gut-feeling is he’s town.

Maybe the mafia will take care of him CAUSE HE MIGHT GUESS RIGHT.

Maybe he might decide to be useful and think for hisself!

Unvote

It’s late so I’ll figure out who I want to vote tomorrow

Also, watch Shigurui:Death Frenzy. It starts with a blind guy and an one-armed dude about to fight each other to the death in a sword-fighting tournament, and it goes into their history over the course of however many episodes it is.

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I hope you all like ice-cream.

Now, does FoU being on the scumteam with Toaster make sense? Food for thought.

I’m voting EuchreJack, not Egan.

Also, that doesn’t seem to include EuchreJack’s double vote, ‘cause you said at day start 9 would hammer, not 8.

EBWOP

The above part (before the PPE) was in response to this:

Quote from: hector13 on April 17, 2023, 03:48:22 pm

EJ good job on completely ignoring me pointing out the flaws in your gameplan.

Continuing on from above re:D1 lynches, another good argument for a D1 lynch is getting rid of someone who isn’t going to put any effort in to help town. You’ve indicated an unwillingness to do that by saying you’ll sheep either of two players you think are good - which you do in every game to be perfectly honest, I honestly don’t see the point in you continuing to play mafia if you have no interest in actually playing mafia but whatever - while simultaneously doing zero to actually get a solid read on those two players.

This is a big game; assuming you’re town, a D1 mislynch is going to be much less harmful than in the size of games we’ve been having of late. You know your alignment for suresies, so allowing someone else to basically take your voice when you don’t know their alignment is… utter madness and frustrating beyond description. Alternatively, if you’re scum we get rid of a significant issue of you having more sway than everyone else, which is a problem that only gets worse the longer the games goes on and you still live. The latter is makes a lot of sense if one or both of Toony or Jim are your partner(s), because you lose nothing by giving away your voice to someone you know for suresies is in your team.

Give me one good reason why we shouldn’t get rid of you when your only inclination appears to be Jim or Toony’s sock-puppet.

Because I'm not sheeping either of them, yet.
In fact, Jim is voting someone else.
And furthermore, I'm using my double-vote to put pressure on juicebox.

Sorry Hector, I think you're actually not bad but I think on Bay12 meta you're in the danger zone:

- some oldheads get the benefit of the doubt and almost always live to D2 (Toony and Jim, say)
- some wild cards spew themselves as non-mafia (KW and Tric, say)
- some players have recently been scum a lot and gamblers fallacy means people might go easier (Fallacy and me, maybe? Honestly could go the other way)
- some players are pretty good at competently making posts and survive d1 most times regardless of aligment (I suspect EJ and Toaster will be this today)
- some players just wont post enough on D1 and may slip notice until D2 in a big game (I could see this happening with Juicebox)

So that leaves a laregeish group of players who have things stacked against by the meta.

I mean that makes sense to some degree, though why I’m not in that fourth category, particularly in place of EJ, is beyond me.

An argument for a D1 elimination is to make it an informative one, and of that I would be a pretty good choice. I tend to be among the more active posters throughout a game, and I usually try to encourage content from others (see: my RVS questions versus Lenglon’s) and usually, though less so recently given my personal responsibilities, try to get stuff from everyone.

One could also argue that you, having played quite a few games with me, are aware of this, and are implicitly trying to discourage me specifically and others generally from posting, ostensibly to avoid being a D1 elimination.

Why are you discouraging folks from posting when the game is in a low-information state?

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EJ good job on completely ignoring me pointing out the flaws in your gameplan.

Continuing on from above re:D1 lynches, another good argument for a D1 lynch is getting rid of someone who isn’t going to put any effort in to help town. You’ve indicated an unwillingness to do that by saying you’ll sheep either of two players you think are good - which you do in every game to be perfectly honest, I honestly don’t see the point in you continuing to play mafia if you have no interest in actually playing mafia but whatever - while simultaneously doing zero to actually get a solid read on those two players.

This is a big game; assuming you’re town, a D1 mislynch is going to be much less harmful than in the size of games we’ve been having of late. You know your alignment for suresies, so allowing someone else to basically take your voice when you don’t know their alignment is… utter madness and frustrating beyond description. Alternatively, if you’re scum we get rid of a significant issue of you having more sway than everyone else, which is a problem that only gets worse the longer the games goes on and you still live. The latter is makes a lot of sense if one or both of Toony or Jim are your partner(s), because you lose nothing by giving away your voice to someone you know for suresies is in your team.

Give me one good reason why we shouldn’t get rid of you when your only inclination appears to be Jim or Toony’s sock-puppet.