Eurgh. Just eurgh.
So, Esteemed Crystalizedmire made an observation:
It seems like pirates has a convert role and are most likely cults:
EuchreJack: under what circumstances would you use an ability that forced the mafia to kill you, while simultaneously making you impossible to watch or protect?
I would quite readily use that ability. A 18 player game is crazy.
Also: Who wants to be a pirate?
Which seems very on the nose considering how the day turned out.
Anyway.
Esteemed LenglonJack: Please do not recruit Max or Toony. I would prefer not to explain why I am making this request until day 2, but will if it is insisted upon.
Considering Esteemed Maximum Spin is under suspicion of having been recruited, are you willing to expand on this?
Unvote: I have some mixed thoughts on this development, want to let it simmer a bit.
What were your mixed thoughts? You may have presented them later, but I'll ask anyway, in case you didn't.
Esteemed BlackHeartKabalThis is the post that made me unvote, not entirely sure it matters but showing my working is important, so here you go.
oh god the replies
BHK: You pulled a 180 on voting Jim awful fast there, what specifically changed your mind?
I thought that we were voting Jim because we actually thought he was scum, instead of, apparently, to enable a daykill of his pick.
snip
I'm not conflating actions with alignment. I understand full well that role and alignment are two very different things and alignments can have powers that seem odd or counterproductive.
It's odd, to me, that a scum role would have the ability to carry out reprisal against the one method that Town has of reliably eliminating scum in absolutely any mafia game - the vote. Which of the two is more likely - that scum has a role that punishes the town for voting, or that it's simply a town role that can daykill someone that voted for them?
I had the impression that Jim was seen as genuinely suspicious. Why, then, would I not question why exactly we're fingering someone that's very likely town, in my eyes, as scum?
But then I realized that, oh, we're not voting Jim because he's scum, we're voting to let him daykill and give him his pick of target. Right?
Now I don't even know what we're doing with Jim because nobody is on the same page. In terms of actual leads, there's no way that there's this many millers, at least one of them inspects non-town because they aren't actually town. But at the same time, I want to know what the hell is going on with Jim now.
"You must state your Class to proceed."
Just a racer, passing by.
Esteemed TricMagicI can say that inspections should be taken with a grain of salt. Given my ability has the downside of turning people into SK-ally inspects.
Yeah I submitted Dragon, sue me. Still ended up town. (nibbles on a fried Nakeen.)
I think this got glossed over, would you like to expand on how you turn people into SK-ally inspects?
Miscellaneous thoughts@Toony: Hm, perhaps the hat is an alignment changer? I have reason to believe that alignments might be mutable.
Interesting.
Esteemed webadict do you still consider the above to be true?
I can vouch for Imp here: My alignment inspects as Pirate instead of Town. This leads to me believe that Pirate is at the very least not a town alignment. Jack appears to be siding with or as a pirate here, which is not town behavior.
One of my abilities lists a couple alignments. Town is green, mafia and pirates are red, and hunter is blue. So pirates are a second scum team.
I am not sure the dream shapes so. Game this big, we surely have red Pirates and red Mafia, one or more navy serial killers. Granted, with a 'perfect defense' for the day, there's probably night defenses too, but no, the lynch is not the only way most can die, and nobody has to face that ensured death... unless it turns out that way. Also, it's used by choice. Only way I can see Jim not using it is if he's jester (wouldn't that be a mess for Jim?), but I think there's other answers than 'inevitable daykill to the face' for SOMEONE.
Three people confirming Pirates are red, and red alignments in the game of mafia usually implies particular affiliation. It could be that all three players here are of different alignments (possibly one town, two scum on different teams) or some combination of alignments.
Possibly some disagreement between Esteemed Imp and Esteemed Egan_BW regarding certain hues:
I confirm that I see the colors green, red, and navy in my PM. I do not specifically know anything about Egan_BW, and I would not (and did not) not use the word 'hunter' for describing those navy folks. Serial Killer is what I understand navy to mean. Navy is a shade of blue. I don't know anything about 'blue' itself or about 'hunters'. But if I can find out who watches the watchers, maybe I will know more then.
I would be inclined so say this means they are not on the same scum team, if they are both scum.
Eurgh pages 19-21 are hissy fit related. I will parrot Esteemed notquitethere in suggesting that looks a lot more like a player who thinks they have lost than someone upset over making a mistake.
Esteemed Secretdorf1) If you are so sure that I am mafia, why are you not voting me?
D1's not even 24 hours in. I want to see other people's reactions to recent developments.
If you're going to vote someone, Euchre, I'd actually recommend Egan_BW or Secretdorf. I don't know if they realized why, but both of them just made really suspicious posts. ToonyMan isn't a big deal, and honestly feels kinda Town, if you ask me, but I can't read him all too well on Day 1. But, I think I trust Lenglon too much to not trust whatever they're doing to ToonyMan and Max, so I'm willing to let my moderate suspicion of them go.
Regardless, I'm willing to defend you if you let me borrow your voting power. 
I promise that you are free to take it back whenever you want, but I'd like to work as a team.
...
Okay, Jim is Town, let him cook.
I'm guessing it's because I said something which only mafia should know? Is there something else?
I think Jack was claiming scum earlier, why do you think he' s town, webadict?
About the Jim bit, I can agree.
Suspicious post.
@Secretdorf: Other than me, whom else do you think looks scummy?
Webadict, Jim, Lenglon, Elephant Parade look townish to me. I cannot think of anyone who seems scum to me. I think I'll do a reread of the thread later.
Instead, I will UNO Reverse the accusation onto you to explain how Jack could be scum. There is insufficient evidence to backup your claim.
Fallacy said pirates are the second scum team. Jack said he is pirate captain and was supposed to recruit 3 pirates. I'm not very brilliant, so I can only conclude that Jack is the second mafia team. Am I missing something?
Yes, that's not what Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist said:
FallacyofUrist I wish to ask you here: Pirates, if pirates exist or come to exist, would they be anti-town?
In the opening post, I state that no alignments outside of the listed ones may exist. Pirates are not explicitly listed as an alignment. However...
(Very Rare, Requires Large Game) The other scumteam may take up any villainous-sounding factional name. They share the same rules and win condition as the Mafia - and yes, they will need to fight the Mafia in order to achieve their win condition, and vice versa, because it turns out this town isn't big enough for two groups of murderers.
The only way for Pirate to be an alignment would be for it to be a scumteam alignment.
He said if an alignment called Pirates exist, they would be scum, which is not at all the same as confirming that there are two scum teams, one of which is called Pirates.
Esteemed webadictI was promised reasons for Esteemed EuchreJack being town, what should I read into that?
I'll give you a reason to insult me then.
If your role says that you inspect as pirate, then you know that pirate is red. I think it's more likely that you knew that already and were just assuming that none of US knew.
Alright, you're an idiot.
If my role says that I inspect as pirate, BUT my role does NOT say that pirate is red, then how would I know that pirate is red?
Not the first time Fallacy has made a mistake, so I'm willing to hear you out on this.
I have major issue with this, because one mistake does not beget another. Equally so it assumes that any mistake was willingly compounded instead of corrected, after Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist posted about potential Pirate alignments in response to a question.
I'm also concerned regarding your assertion that chatting about Pirates and colours is irrelevant due to meta-gaming, but maligning the moderator doesn't seem to fit in there? Though I confess to being quite furious about Esteemed EuchreJack's childish outburst over a meaningless internet game and I'm looking for outlets, and he being "under your protection" irks me to no end. Probably not really relevant, but we're not the Catholic Church, we won't fix people being assholes in games by moving them to another parish, and I feel that's what will result from this, aaaaaaas usual.
I'm gonna make a really weird guess right now. It is entirely likely that I am wrong here. But, I'm making a guess nonetheless.
Looking back at a couple of posts, I feel like Lenglon, ToonyMan, and Egan_BW might all be on the same team. I actually think there's probably a fourth person, but I can't really tell who... Is it Crystalmired? Maybe?
Thus, I will state that it is probably all four of them. I have no real proof of this, but I'm putting it here just in case.
Also the most recent people to throw shade Esteemed EuchreJack's way, and the player who suggested that pirates might be cults:
It seems like pirates has a convert role and are most likely cults:
EuchreJack: under what circumstances would you use an ability that forced the mafia to kill you, while simultaneously making you impossible to watch or protect?
I would quite readily use that ability. A 18 player game is crazy.
Also: Who wants to be a pirate?
Though you're smarter than that if indeed the Pirates are a cult type thing that you were recruited into, so I might just be reading too much into that.
Imp: No
Web: I have a minor case on secretdorf, but it's not worth voting over yet. The key tells haven't happened enough to be a consistent pattern. Egan isn't setting off my alarms at the moment, but I think I know what you're referring too. Assuming my guess is correct but that you don't want me to say what the tells you're looking for are I'll not be specific about pretty much anything, but I would expect you to also be considering Imp. Why not Imp?
Not only is it not Imp, it is definitely not Imp.
What a difference a day makes.
Personally, I don't like voting Imp. I think the main reason I'm voting Imp is because that Imp posts a lot, but is saying a lot of things that I would classify as filler.
Also, I believe TricMagic.
What changed? Activity is NAI. Is there particular sections of what Esteemed Imp is saying that make you worried?
Esteemed EuchreJackClaim:
EuchreJack was given the town role Pirate King. It causes me to inspect as Pirate. I was NOT and I want to emphasis this, NOT told that Pirate was a scum faction. I assumed it was, you know, third party. Then our overworked GM kindly informed everyone publicly that Pirate could only possibly be a scum faction. So I claimed miller without knowing that I was claiming miller.
The role Pirate King gives me access to the Pirate chat. I can recruit 3 other people to join Pirate chat. They will also inspect as Pirate.
There is so much wrong here.
You submitted a role, not given one. What was the submission to get Pirate King?
It would be somewhat bananas for a Pirate King to not inspect as a Pirate, Godfather-esque things notwithstanding.
You were not told that the Pirates were a faction, but you assumed it was Third-Party? Why? Why did you not ask for clarification if you weren't sure? Not really indicative of anything, but curiosity anyway.
Esteemed ToonyMan has claimed that they are town and inspect as Pirate, and that in their PM the Pirate was Red, as well as Esteemed Egan_BW and Esteemed Imp saying that Pirates appear as Red in their PM's. Are they lying?
Given the above, why would they get a red Pirate in their PM, but you wouldn't?
Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist answered a question that if a particular alignment was not listed, it would be considered scum,
if it exists. He did not confirm that Pirates exist.
How did you not knowingly claim Miller when you specifically state that the role says you inspect as not-town?
I don't think you answered Esteemed Imp's question about how you recruit to the Piratechat. Perhaps you'd be willing to enlighten us?
Pfft page 24, can't be bothered, Esteemed ToonyMan... if I could qft any harder I would, at least regarding outed scum.
The Story So Far:
Imp - my top townread, has the lowest possible chance of being mafia
Top vote candidate for being mafia
Jack - outed scum
Nobody cares
Is this backwards land?
