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Messages - hector13

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646
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 07:09:26 pm »
EBWOP I meant to say the Imp track-circle rejection wasn’t super strong evidence of them being town, but it’s better than the pro’s column for CM atm.

647
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 07:08:26 pm »
I’m gonna third this pressure on CM ftm.

Egan gave town vibes D1, that’s not really changed D2.

Imp by rejecting my ill-thought out support for a track circle makes me feel a bit more comfortable with the idea of them being town.

PoE leaves CM, but we’ve got time. I’ll keep track of the thread but probably not say a whole lot for the next 5-6 hours.

PPE:
Most recent point I could make was where CM pointed out that scum!Egan might not necessarily action rationally. Which I'd already alluded to, but CM didn't quote me or anything. And earlier in day 1 where CM quoted Imp's post and more or less just wrote the same conclusion which was already in Imp's post.

Aha!  Egan, if you would entertain me.

How can I improve my play and interaction to better interact in mafia games with players similar to yourself?

What are some things I maybe could do differently, that might help me more successfully learn about players like you?

Probably a question+answer better left to the post-game.

648
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 05:49:13 pm »
Alright. Summarized not very deep thoughts because this is downtime I’d rather use for rest than thinking but whatever.

If the scum has a track-kill: Egan is not cleared as town, and I don’t think anyone else is either given the claims made. I claimed I tracked Max from the off, so CM and Imp supporting that doesn’t really say anything if nobody else can back up their claims.

If the scum does not have a track-kill: no change from what we’ve discussed already: Egan’s results clear him from my perspective, CM and Imp just confirm I visited Max, which I claimed from the off so doesn’t clear them from my perspective.

In order to test this… Imp’s scheme from D1 of a track circle might actually work, because each of the town confirm each other, and the scum have to use their track-kill to visit someone and give their tracker a result, else the person we get no result from can be lynched.

Thoughts?

PPE: long post from Imp, I’ll post this and read that.

649
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 05:14:51 pm »
Egan, to me, is clear. I’m not clear to him because I parroted what he said.

Well, if you were scum would you prefer to accuse me of lying about who max visited and thus implicate me as max's killer, or just go along with what I said in case CM also visited max?

The easiest thing to do would be to go along with you, because I don’t think CM had claimed at that point, which as I mentioned leaves a lot of uncertainty for claim space. This is a lot of why I say I’m not clear from your perspective.

The trick is everyone is a tracker, including the mafia.

I almost thought oh snap about Egan... then remembered, Hec can confirm... then remembered, if the mafia kill is a track....  then it's safe for Egan to make the claim Egan made, even as killer, because kill and track can be the same action.  Maybe?  I have no idea.

I'm back to square 1, except I do lean towards OMG, Hec still does read as probable town.

Hec, what the heck do you think?

I had not considered that.

It… throws a lot of uncertainty into the mix.

Eurgh why can’t things just be simple.

CM looks to be the first to bring it up? Right. *sighs* this is something we need to consider then.

650
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 04:23:57 pm »
I propose this.

Before any of us say who we tracked last night, we ask us all this one question.

Does anyone want to admit they went to the night kill target?

Maybe nobody tracked the killer.  Maybe someone did.

Shall we magpies play that game of chicken, or is this a bad idea?

This is what you said to discuss when we first started the day, instead of informing everyone I had visited the NK, which is going to be much more useful a thing to discuss for scumhunting than the merits of your proposal, despite me immediately saying I had visited Max in my first post of the day, but you waited until after CM had confirmed I visited Max before saying it.

Why are you keeping materially important information from us until hours later in such a short day?

I don't think that anyone ever claimed that hac is cleared, so stop talking about it as if someone did. That's just a distraction, intentional or not.

Rereads:

So, it looks like Egan and I can clear each other (or I can clear Egan, as he said it first) so that makes my life easier for choosing between CM and Imp.

I implied I was the only one that could clear Egan in that post broseph. Even if it’s a poor job of implying it I outright stated it here:

Egan is clearing himself in my eyes because I visited Max and got that Max visited Egan. If he got that result, he didn’t kill him.

I seconded that, which could just be me copying Egan. Frankly it doesn’t make that much of a difference to me if I’m cleared or not.

Are you saying you visited Max, not me?

Egan, to me, is clear. I’m not clear to him because I parroted what he said.

Somewhat similarly, CM gets a bit of towncred from me for saying I visited Max first, though considering I’ve been saying that all day it doesn’t clear him.

Regardless, another point against for you trying to mischaracterise what I said when I’d made it clear in the same discussion.

651
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 03:55:46 pm »
Well, you both visited me. Am I lying about having visited Max?
You are not lying about visiting Maximum Spin.
How about you Imp?

652
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 03:48:03 pm »
I’d like you and CM to tell me who I visited N1.

“I will honestly say I visited Max” is how you show someone else is talking, not you. That’s were the misunderstanding arose, it really isn’t that big a deal.

653
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 03:44:01 pm »
Well, you both visited me. Am I lying about having visited Max?

654
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 03:42:31 pm »
Are you saying you visited Max, not me?
Alright.  I visited Hector.

WIFOM is strong.  I can see it either way.  What I do not see is clear 'clearly both have confirmed each other'.

I will honestly say I visited Max

You started it, sunshine.

Though having read it again, you appear to be speaking for Egan or me.

Punctuation, or the lack thereof, has meaning, speech marks are your friend.

Egan tracked Max. That means he didn’t kill him.

655
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 03:34:48 pm »
Egan is clearing himself in my eyes because I visited Max and got that Max visited Egan. If he got that result, he didn’t kill him.

I seconded that, which could just be me copying Egan. Frankly it doesn’t make that much of a difference to me if I’m cleared or not.

Are you saying you visited Max, not me?

656
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 03:21:29 pm »
What exactly is not being discussed? We have three claims so far, two of which are the same. I know the response Egan needs to give to be cleared by me, because I know who Max visited. I don’t want that to be outed until CM posts though.

PPE: never mind then. That gels with what I have.

So, it looks like Egan and I can clear each other (or I can clear Egan, as he said it first) so that makes my life easier for choosing between CM and Imp.

But yeah, Egan is correct in the assertion that doing maths isn’t going to help us figure out who is town a scum. There’s the whole of D1 to go over, and CM needs to post a bit more today so we can figure them out. There’s no need to panic.

657
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 01:14:07 pm »
There is town valuable discussion here, but by discussing results, not strategy. We wasted a big chunk of D1 discussing your strategy, and I don’t want D2 to get bogged down in discussing something NAI than actual mechanical information.

You are right in one thing though: scum doesn’t know who the other players visited, which means they have zero knowledge of the space they have to fakeclaim their action.

Claiming who you visited but not the result reduces that space because it means the scum can’t fakeclaim without risk of being outed via a lie.

We need to find the scum, not piss about discussing the finer points of strategy.

658
Mafia / Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« on: December 08, 2023, 12:38:45 pm »
What’s the point in discussing strategy when people are going to have actual information to share? It’s not a game of chicken, it’s a waste of time. Why do you want to waste time?

Here’s how I see the game going: we’re at 4 players, MyLo. Thus, a mistake on the lynch is a loss. Tracks aren’t evidence in and of themselves, they say who someone visited, not what they did. We no lynch today, find out whether or not the scum is compelled to kill, and probably come back to the same situation D3. We either do that ad infinitum, or we bite the bullet and do something about it. That’s the only strategy that matters.

I visited Max.

659
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread
« on: December 08, 2023, 12:30:17 pm »
https://twitter.com/RepStefanik/status/1732138663608271149

So, it is fine to call for genocide in the best American universities now (depending on the context). Cool!
Stefanik gives the game away at 25 seconds, IMO.
Quote from: transcribed because I'm procrastinating
Stefanik: "Yes or no- calling for the genocide of Jews does not constitute bullying or harassment?"
Kornbluth: "I have not heard calling for the genocide of Jews on our campus"
Stefanik: "But you have heard chants for intifada"
Kornbluth: "I've heard chants that can be antisemitic depending on the context: when calling for the elimination of the Jewish people"
Stefanik: "So those would not be according to the MIT's code of conduct or rules"

I'm not sure why they can't say "It would be against of code of conduct, if it was happening".  But I see why they don't just say "yes" when Stefanik is shamelessly conflating calls for Palestinian liberation with calls for genocide against the Jewish people.

I'm no PR expert or lawyer so all I know is Stefanik's playing a dishonest game and seems to have gotten what she wanted out of it.

I feel that that completely ignores the historic context of antisemitism and wish for genocide of Jews these terms are loaded with, as well as the historically genocidal sentiment of the people who used them, and that even more dishonest to me. We're back to what hector was doing earlier with the "from river to sea, Palestine will be free" slogan and going "no you don't know what they mean by free you can't say it's genocidal" when in fact we do know the historical context and meaning of "free" and it is genocidal.

The fact that this is even up for debate is ridiculous. If you can't see how language like this is terrifying for many Jews to hear than you need to try harder to be empathetic.

People mischaracterizing me again ::) the context you failed to provide of that discussion was people marching for peace using the phrase. Excuse me for having the opinion that people marching for an end to conflict aren’t making a call for genocide.

Jews are allowed to respond with fear to it because it has been used to call for their extermination, but people who aren’t using it to mean that are allowed to point out they’re not using it that way.

Administrators then have the decision to make of where to draw the line: do they draw the line on stopping people saying it, potentially infringing upon the rights of people calling for the freedom of a state that has been under military occupation for decades, or do they fall on the side of permitting it, and thus allowing people who do mean it as the extermination of Jews to nudge nudge wink wink their way to relevance?

Catch-22, their going to be criticized either way.

660
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you mildly upset today thread
« on: December 08, 2023, 04:06:29 am »
SWEET CAROLINE

meow meow meow

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