Bay 12 Games Forum

He’s sure not doing himself any favours.

They were voting me when I explained them my top town pick, with reasons.  They were voting me when I explained my concerns.  Why did my reaction change?  Clearly because of the vote, right?  Seriously, Hec, I don't understand your... blinders?  I don't mind at all explaining reasoning, but what the heck is yours?  What are you seeing and not seeing to make you notice what you do and not notice what you don't appear to?  Impressive tunneling, but is it town tunnel or scum tunnel?  I don't expect to find out today.

Egan has parked their vote on you but hasn’t just ignored the rest of the game.

It may not be a whole lot, but there was effort to consider CM here and question sofanthiel here.

Here he says he’ll sheep Max and I (though sheep seems a bit too strong since they at least appear to have made some effort to form reads on their own) because he thinks we’re town. It’s not a horrible thing to do on D1, particularly in light of their contributions during the gamebreaking discussion and their efforts into pressing CM and sofanthiel; I’m currently doing similar in that I consider Egan town, yet you’re throwing shade his way, which makes me think ill of you.

What exactly am I being blind about? It’s unlikely I’ll read your response before day end, but something to chew on for D2 should it arise.

If it’s a reference to tunneling, then sure, I’m tunneling. Reason being, I was trying to decide who to vote between you and sofanthiel, and sofanthiel has disappeared into the mists, so I’m focusing on you as you’re the only one of the two responding.

Of course, I’m also aware (having used the tactic before as scum) that sofanthiel could be trying to make me/us forget they exist, as they were receiving quite a bit of pressure before their absence, possibly in the hope you receive more attention and get taken out as a consequence. “The nail that sticks out gets hammered down” and all that.

To be perfectly honest, I was going to switch to sofanthiel, but maybe Egan will chime in before the deadline and fill in some of the gaps.

If nothing else it’ll give us more to go on for deciding night targets, and a potential D2.

This’ll be my last post of the day. Don’t do anything silly while I’m unconscious.

You seem awfully convinced there’s going to be a D2 to be able to consider these things, Imp. Do you not think sofanthiel will flip scum?

I also notice you’re throwing shade on the only person to be explicitly voting you.

Egan said in the bit you quoted that his reads are all vibes based. Why are you not giving Max the same level of doubt, given his read on you and sofanthiel are meta based, which is essentially a vibe check?

He even admits to his read on you being possibly inaccurate because he hasn’t seen your scum game, and sofanthiel’s play:

… does seem within the same general subcontinent of what I've seen of his mafia play.

which doesn’t sound hugely confident, change in vote aside.

I think I’ll indulge my inner cheeky child and point out that you’ve been pretty on it in terms of picking up on ostensibly innocuous comments during the game, so why would Max’s uncertain meta reads slip you by when Egan’s doesn’t?

EBWOP:

In the middle of discussing Hec, I state, "I have a strong feel Egan is way holding back here, and maybe not because D1 and nature of game."  I meant to say "I have a strong feel Hec is way holding back here, and maybe not because D1 and nature of game."  I was thinking and comparing the two, but meant to type Hec.

I wasn’t fibbing when I said I have limited time to dedicate to mafia, and the time I do have also needs to be for other diversions too. It’ll usually be late in the day (like after midnight forum time) that it happens, except an hour or two in the middle of the day.

The last game I played I also apparently upset a newer player to the point they sabotaged the game, and my reads other than that were also pants. Consequently I feel I need a bit more consideration in my game, for all the meanings of the word.

Honestly, you shaped up and I don't really want to lynch Imp today. At this exact moment I feel like we are best off lynching Crymea or Sofa King.

He says, still voting for Imp…

I’d prefer Imp over sofanthiel atm - pending sofanthiel’s response, I guess - so you’ll have to convince me.

Imp suggesting I’m going after low-hanging fruit bothers me a bit, when really the only other options for pressure are you (the abyss) and CM, whose main point against appears to be that they’ve posted seldom. I’m not going to get anything from the void or from someone who isn’t here.

Quote from: hector13 on December 06, 2023, 05:55:06 pm

I’d really like you to answer:

Come on, it wasn't even 3 minutes!

Quote from: sofanthiel on December 06, 2023, 04:44:27 pm

Quote from: Maximum Spin on December 06, 2023, 04:27:09 pm

Quote from: sofanthiel on December 06, 2023, 04:22:38 pm

As a sidenote, Max's willingness to answer questions seems rather atypical, though I've also noticed that he's a lot more cooperative when town and prefers to mess around as scum.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm actually just a lot more cooperative when I'm randomly in a cooperative mood.

Or so you claim.  My observation holds true within every single game we've both participated in, and actions many words speak louder than... few words or something like that.

I will stand by this till death, or at least before I'm proven wrong. Either one works.

It had only been three minutes, but it would’ve popped up as a new response when you pressed the post button. If it didn’t it might mean you missed it, and I didn’t want that to happen.

The response is not good enough, however. You said that what Max has done so far is enough for you to consider him town, while all I have done was meta-commentary and chat on strategy… which is how I would characterize his posts so far.

I wanted specific posts that made you think Max is town, and you somewhat hypocritically offer meta justification for it.

Why is Max townread when he does commentary on meta and strategy, while I’m not?

Why do you think Egan and Imp are town, and of the two players you are less sure of, why are you voting CM instead of me?

Quote from: hector13 on December 06, 2023, 05:55:06 pm

That’s not better, it’s condensing what I’d already posted into one post, plus a bit of extra justification from more recent Imp posts.

It's mostly the new stuff, hector; what's been condensed from past posts of yours comprises less than 20% of the updated logic in that defense.  I'll probably be keeping my vote firmly on Crystal for the time being.

No, it comprises 100% of my intent to vote Imp, which hasn’t changed since. The extra stuff is just that: extra.

Contrast with Max who has offered 0% explicit justification for their vote on Imp so far.

---

@Imp

You have posted incessantly about your plan, even after it was rejected by the mod and most of the other players in the game.

When I say you’re defending the scheme, I don’t mean justifying that we do it, I mean justifying having come up with it, even though it has been made very clear we, as players, are not doing it.

If I were a cynical man, I would say you’re clearly active lurking by looking as though you’re posting walls of text to make it appear as though you’re contributing, but actually aren’t, and I don’t think you’ve been particularly pokey at players either, despite your inflated post count.

In short, you’re here, but not scumhunting.

Quote from: Crystalizedmire on December 06, 2023, 04:46:20 pm

Last time Sofanthiel was town, they were scum hunting. Here it seems like they're not scum hunting at all.

I find the current active participants, which are Spin, Imp, and Egan, all more-or-less town; there isn't enough information to extract from the posts you and hector have made so far to glean any accusation-worthy details. One minor thing is that I'd like to see more involvement from hector, specifically, because his contribution mostly consists of meta-comments about mafia strategy.  The only in-game action I can discern is jumping on the Imp wagon without necessarily committing to it (an unintentional hammer would only harm the last voter, really).

I’d also like to know which of Max’s posts have been more than meta-comments and mafia strategy, from your point of view.

Quote from: Crystalizedmire on December 06, 2023, 04:46:20 pm

Last time Sofanthiel was town, they were scum hunting. Here it seems like they're not scum hunting at all.

I find the current active participants, which are Spin, Imp, and Egan, all more-or-less town; there isn't enough information to extract from the posts you and hector have made so far to glean any accusation-worthy details. One minor thing is that I'd like to see more involvement from hector, specifically, because his contribution mostly consists of meta-comments about mafia strategy.  The only in-game action I can discern is jumping on the Imp wagon without necessarily committing to it (an unintentional hammer would only harm the last voter, really).

Excuse me? I have signaled intent to vote Imp because Imp is interpreting things weirdly and apparently willing to waste time in a 24 hour day by not sharing with the class, and is still trying to defend their scheme by suggesting it was only for N1 even though, as Max points out, if it’s the best thing to do from D1 into N1, and the conditions don’t change on D2, it’s still the best thing to do from D2 into N2.

PPE:

Imp, why does Egan get one more letter than the rest of us?

Imp got there first but I grew up in mafia learning that voicing your own concerns even if voiced similarly by someone else is better than remaining silent: what is with that question?

The interesting thing is that Imp, despite noting the question had little merit, still answered it.

Imp

I’m inclined to agree right now, but we’ll see what they say next. Not willing for L-1 just yet.