Bay 12 Games Forum

Oh hey, another Trumper is coming up with weird shit around truths. This time is was Giuliani saying “truth isn’t truth” in an interview regarding Trump talking to the Mueller investigation.

Ireland is not a country any more than Europe is (though there are definite elements in both aiming in that direction). It is an island with two countries represented; the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom. The problem with the United Kingdom portion is that there is a cultural, political and religious split between those claiming allegiance to each nation.

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 10:56:47 pm

To paraphrase the big man himself, there are cunts on both sides.

Indeed there are, and let none of us dispute it. Indeed, I don't know that anyone did dispute it. This seems to be an element of your posting concerning Northern Ireland, though. If there is something negative about Unionism - say violence during marches - you bring out the scorn:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

12th of July is the date that Billy of Orange beat the Catholics up centuries ago, some members of the Orange Order - a Protestant organisation that doesn’t like Catholics - like to celebrate that by marching through Catholic neighboirhoods singing anti-Catholic songs, some Republicans don’t appreciate that. Violence ensues.

When something negative about Republicanism is posted, this being a case in point, it is "but the other side is just as bad, stop picking on the Republicans!"

I fully agree with there being horrible people on both sides. I am a Unionist by dint of my cultural and ancestral association with Britain, as well as the obvious political and economic reasons (though these last two are only benefits, I admit, and I would be a Unionist regardless).

Despite this, I know that the history of the Troubles in Northern Ireland is one of brutality. Horrible, senseless murder on both sides, for little reason other than politics or religion. And that on both sides these issues continue.

I accept this, but given your pattern of "attack Unionism, defend Republicanism", I don't know that you do. I posted an article about the burning of highly potent emotional symbols (and do not try to insinuate that this attack was not intended to be a spiteful emotional assault; with the inclusion of murdered people's names, it blatantly is) and your response is not to criticise, but to defend.

The above article was not posted to prove Unionism to be superior morally; try not to argue as though it were.

Indeed.

I responded to you initially because you said you didn’t understand why a group of people who were horribly mistreated by the British army over a period of decades may have an issue with a symbol associated with the British army, this in spite of you knowing what happened during the Troubles.

In much the same way LW is right to point out my erroneous interpretation of his post, at what point did I say the Republicans were right to do the things they did in the article?

You will note that the quote you mentioned in your post was about the annual Orange Order marches, a religious thing involving some people who choose to use it as a vehicle to indulge their religious hatred, every year. I personally don’t like religion, moreso when it is used to make other groups fearful, even if those happen to be other religious groups. Given the general alignment between politics and religion around the topic of Republicans and Loyalists, what I said was intended as a very generalized comment on what happens every year around the middle of July. Catholics/Republicans know the Protestants/Loyalists are going to march and cheer about a Protestant beating a Catholic hundreds of years ago, and thus both sides feel they have an excuse to go on a bit of a rampage.

I also note you took that quote out of context: smjjames asked what was causing the violence in Derry over a period of days, to which I responded with that over-generalized summary of what happens every year around the time of the Twelfth marches. At the time, this caused you to confuse my scorn with religious folk as support for the Republicans, a notion which I disabused you of shortly thereafter, which appeared to end the discussion.

Consequently I’m confused as to why it’s being brought up seven weeks hence, unbidden, out of ckntext, and previously clarified.

Have you tried the likes of Miller Lite and (I imagine since I haven’t actually tried the following) Budweiser and Coors varieties? ‘cause they taste like nothing.

I mean the joke has been uttered many times but you’re all too drunk to remember it but its’s like having sex in a canoe: fucking near water.

Quote from: hector13 on August 18, 2018, 12:41:18 pm

While I’m loathe to use irony to address a point, it couldn’t possibly be that it’s a symbol celebrating the British military, and they don’t particularly like the British military as a result of things like the Military Reaction Force or the Falls Curfew.

Nah, nothing as simple as thinking that people that were supposed to protect you treat you like shit and loot your house or anything like that.

It's not a symbol celebrating the British military, it is a symbol of remembrance, a reminder of all the fallen servicemen and women from the Great War onwards. It is probably a distinction irrelevant in the eyes of those who build pyres out of their neighbour's symbols.

It has recently been taken up as a symbol of British nationalism too. Last year (maybe the year before) the home nations’ Football Associations got in a bit of a tizzy over FIFA not allowing them to wear the poppy on their shirts, ‘cause Scotland were playing England in a World Cup qualifier. Cue politicians getting upset over this decision, saying they would support the players in whatever punishment they received from the governing body. Notably (at least according to Beeb) no other country got upset about that, even those from which most of the fighting took place.

There’s also the occasional “this person isn’t wearing a poppy this hates Britain/should be killed, like Moeen Ali, whose poppy fell of but he was called a rancid cunt and worse by various people, or James McClean who received death threats for not wearing a poppy on political grounds - he was raised in an Irish nationalist household and is uncomfortable wearing something that reminds him of the armed forces.

The red poppy does remain the international symbol of remembrance though, I’ll give you that.

Curious that they added a Trump flag and an Israel flag to the pyre as well. Adding the specific names of murdered Irishmen? It's a deliberate terror tactic desiring a continuation of war, when the threat of peace seems ever closer.

Let’s not pretend this is just a Republican thing, aye? Loyalists do the same shit, as well as burning Irish national flags, Palestinian flags, and images of Che Guevara.

To paraphrase the big man himself, there are cunts on both sides.

Give it some time, you’ll figure it out.

May you get ate by seven mimes for that.

You butchered that one.

Quietly, presumably.

It’s be that much harder to break them from the inside though, since Jains get bonuses for realm stability, though I can’t remember what they are.

Also, tell that to the Byzantines

Sad at the game though; was Scottish Shia, trying to revoke a duchy title, which I can apparently do without bothering off the aristocracy even without a reason.

Suddenly tyranny revolt with 2.5 times my troops. They’re not bothered ‘til they get bothered, apparently.

Quote from: Trekkin on August 17, 2018, 09:52:53 am

Quote from: Rolan7 on August 17, 2018, 09:38:46 am

Now we just need a system of electing professionals who are motivated by the good of the nation, rather than a popularity contest whose winners are allowed to be subsidized by lobbies...

And what, precisely, does an election that is not a popularity contest look like systemically?

Other than a rigged election, of course.

Yeah, I wasn't sarcastically hinting at a better system.  I don't have an answer.
"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others", after all.

I guess the British House of Lords?  Though I remember very little about that.
The concept of "statemen", leaders who care about the nation above themselves, is very old though.  We used to have a lot more of them in government, but ideals seem to struggle against well-funded campaigns.

tldr; Campaign finance reform, duh.

I hope you're not thinking the House of Lords is a better system, seeing as they're all unelected and there are still hereditary titles in there.