Bay 12 Games Forum

Out of order 3) The charge that I am maliciously trimming posts is about the same as the charge that I am maliciously misrepresenting my own reading of your words.
I "twist" your words because I am looking for clues, and because text communication occasionally fails. So I take whatever you say, translate into something that makes sense to me, and attempt to reflect it back through the screen. Then I study your reaction for clues as to how close I came to your original intent.

You could just, like, you know, ask questions to figure out the original intent, or something?

What does your study of my reaction reveal?

Quote from: hector13 on July 21, 2018, 05:45:05 pm

which is actually me asking why Tric is so caught up on a delayed result - that he had been told by MM(!) would not be resolved until N2 - which appears to be stopping him engaging with the major event from D2, namely RGU's guilty result and MaxSpin's subsequent counter.
. . .
"Tric, stop focusing on something that won't be resolved until N2 and actually comment on the present game state mate"

[1]– you are associating – understandably since Tric himself keeps using the delay as a reason not to say more – associating the double kill hypothesis with something to do about the delay and dismissing it as unknowable until the delay resolves.

This is how I believe you dropped the subject, and I take it up again by pointing out that I am seeking knowledge Tric might have that is separate from the delayed result.

[2]Is a blocked kill, if true, not part of the game state?

[1]: his thoughts re: double-kill-N1-but-one-was-blocked didn't enter into it. It is unknowable, unless someone reveals something about it. Thus, it is a pointless thing to focus on until someone reveals something about it.

Thus, what I was telling him was to not focus on his N1 result, that we know had been delayed, because it wouldn't become relevant until D3.

[2]: a blocked kill that is known, sure. Tric was quite obviously speculating, given his claim and his lack of inclination to discuss it.

As a counter-question: what does focusing on a speculated blocked kill do for your read of the game?

5) My case for part b) has been given, and a) is my ascribing motive to that pattern.

I can see where you insist I underrated the interactions mentioned in part 4.
I don't follow that you not bringing up Moony again means I should forget it happened; you are certainly keen enough to list every post I make. And I really don't understand why I – make that either of us – should attempt to explain my motivation for what I was writing D2 by being prescient of your moves D3.

What do you mean by the italicised part?

6) ??

Oh. Oooooh.

Is that what this is about?
Because this whole time I thought "ignoring my scumread" was in reference to TricMagic. Thus why I devoted the entire post you've been critiquing with these questions to my interaction with Tric and reasons for doing so.

This is what not asking questions does for you.

I hope this distinction sounds other than insane because I'm not sure how else to frame it: Max Spin was not so much a scum read as a scum decision. Right away D2 I said that I had been trusting Max more than BHK/RGU on D1. I asked how other people were taking the news, whether they had information to validate or refute either party. After four days and little other substance forthcoming (inlcuding, I admit, hardly anything from myself), I reviewed what had happened and decided that Max's attitude warranted flipping more than RGU's or TM's, exactly as and when I posted.

So what does that mean for your read on RGU, and Tric? I can see how you might clear RGU from that, but not Tric.

'cause you say that Tric was your scumread, and you were pushing that scumread for the entirety of D2, but you focus on IcyTea at the start of D3.

The irony is that the one sentence I meant to be read dripping with sarcasm is practically the only thing from that day that you've chosen to read straight. I do not think that I meaningfully mischaracterized Max's position(s); and Max's reply to me is one more example of how little he offered the town to work with. He even tries to step away from the assertion that he's been framed, in spite of that earlier being his prized hypothesis.

It's ironic that you consider it's my fault for misinterpretating your lack of communication skills

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Important bit for people who aren't hector and MM

Now, we seem to have gotten sidetracked. I like how you've done it, but lets get going here.

A great deal of my case on you was around you attempting to get blueturtle to consider various scenarios in which MaxSpin came out clean. You did comment on it in your first wall, but you slipped that over to Tric in the second post, from which this particular course has taken us.

Now, I don't want to respond to all the ways you misrepresented me in that post (IREALLYREALLYDOACTUALLY) but boiling it down, in the final paragraph of that wall you say:

"... I was all along suggesting that Max Spin might be a doctor and it is everyone else who conflated that hypothesis with his being town..."

But MaxSpin was claiming that he was a town-aligned doctor, and doctors very much tend to be town-aligned (this is the first game I've played in a long time, maybe the first time, in which there's been a doctor on the scum team) so, from my perspective, you asking players to consider scenarios in which MaxSpin is actually a doctor is equivalent to you asking players to consider scenarios in which MaxSpin is actually town. A bother when he flips scum.

Further - I'm going to quote a bit from this post again, 'cause it's easier to illustrate my point:

I hope this distinction sounds other than insane because I'm not sure how else to frame it: Max Spin was not so much a scum read as a scum decision. Right away D2 I said that I had been trusting Max more than BHK/RGU on D1. I asked how other people were taking the news, whether they had information to validate or refute either party. After four days and little other substance forthcoming (inlcuding, I admit, hardly anything from myself), I reviewed what had happened and decided that Max's attitude warranted flipping more than RGU's or TM's, exactly as and when I posted.

Which doesn't gel with this post:

I am a JOAT.

Therefore identical archetypes are a real thing. Therefore Max Spin could be a second doctor.
Not of itself exculpatory as I've already brought up the possibility of scum doctors.

... in which you doubt MaxSpin's alignment despite the potential that he may be telling the truth regarding his role, which was made ~7 hours after your initial comments on RGU's guilty result.

and again, here an hour after that:

I think there are several flaws in Spin's proposed proof of career, though. Starting with trusting an outed mafioso how any of us not trying to kill RGU would know that someone had done so and the protection worked.

In which you throw a great deal of doubt on MaxSpin's claim, and all but call him out as scum.

So... how come it took you four days to parlay that apparently significant suspicion into a vote?

Why did you vote so late anyway? You knew he was getting lynched, it very much came across as a vote to make yourself look good in the eyes of the town. There's a word for it but it escapes me lookin' for the easy town-cred, basically.

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Quote from: hector13 on July 21, 2018, 05:45:05 pm

I once chastised Starver after one of his lexical stream-of-consciousness posts, telling him that brevity is a watchword in Mafia.

I know this was meant to be self-referential, but I think you may need to give me the same lecture. My posting is in-the-moment material, asking questions when I see them being left unanswered and explaining my sense of the game board at the time of the post. I do try to compose them with some care and this is what I've seen referred to as my logical play style; but most of your assertions make sense to me only if you are wildly overestimating how grand a long-term scheme I am capable of constructing.

This bit might need to be in green, but eh.

This is why you ask questions instead of making assumptions or rather, in addition to making assumptions. It's a useful tool as town and scum, to be able to ask the right question. This is unfortunately something that only really comes with experience, as well as knowing what motivations town and scum have, and how to manipulate them for profit get to the bottom of them.

All these people are gonna look really dumb if Trump does in fact drop a nuke on Iran.

In other news, I’m going to misuse a meme to bash laws I disagree with!

Here goes:

Florida man shoots and kills a man (with video evidence!) and receives no fucking charges because the man pushed him over first.

Stand your ground laws are great. Just take someone you don’t like to a state that has one, goad them into attacking you, then shoot them in the face! Wins all round.

Nobody. I already said I took no action.

Who are you going to target during N3 then?

Trying to do a Scottish Shia run, starting in 767. Converted to Germanic first, not really sure why, and then the Assassins popped up at some point in the 900s, making my conversion to Shia a bit easier.

It is... interesting. There's no moral authority, and I can't really get boats to get down into the Middle East to get it back. Even if I did, my main holdings are almost the furthest they can be from there to defend it if I do manage to become the Caliph, 'cause the Caliph is gone now

I also have some holdings in Italy, after some interesting inheritances.

I also also almost had my dynasty control the Fylkir(ate?) after getting some matrilineal marriages on the kingdoms of Norway and Denmark, somehow. Unfortunately they both passed away before having any kids of my dynasty

I do have a weakness for Greek women.

Not a fan of chariots.

Biased independence supporter, yes.