9361
Mafia / Re: Paranormal 25 - Night 1
« on: February 14, 2017, 01:03:28 pm »
DA
Just for clarity's sake, your response to that question you broke off at the end, there: (I wonder why...)
Anyway, cynical!hector would think that you're twisting an argument to suit your read, in both cases.
That's an interesting way to put things, seeing as you were the one to bring up the issue of TPs on D1 in regards to your vote. You said if TBF wasn't scum, he was a TP, which - as implied by my questions - struck me as an odd thing to be worrying about for town on D1. It doesn't even look like you considered the possibility of him being incompetent town.
Certainly, there were a number of players on D1 who could fit the bill of not having the town's best interests at heart. TDS posted a handful of times, Tiruin promised a reads list before day end that never came, I tunneled on TBF for ~30 hours, IronyOwl was voting for themselves at the end of the day; the list goes on.
Why did TBF deserve to be voted over these other players on the terms you settled on?
TBF
I take it you no longer feel RattyB is scum?
doll
"Brevity" should be your watchword.
What do you think that means?
A lot of this seems to be based around Tiruin saying she doesn't have much time, which I find to be a tremendously unfair argument. How is she going to prove that she's busy? Photograph paystubs and timesheets? A signed affidavit from her employer and any person she was with?
Then you assume that all the time she has is going to be put toward mafia, as opposed to working. Or sleeping. Or eating. What are you trying to prove with these points?
The biggest issue you should have here is that she promised something that didn't materialise. Why not focus on that, as opposed to trying to be Magnanimous PI and all but outright state she's lying about being busy?
Then we get this, amidst another post of your's decrying Tiruin's busyness:
So... d'ya think pressure votes are at all useful when you say they're pressure votes?
Something of a dichotomy, there.
You spent some of your time essentially saying 4mask's D1 play was shite, and then say nice things about his activity.
cynical!hector rears his head again, and thinks that you're thinking of setting 4mask up if you can't find another easy lynch today.
There's multiple reasons why there was only one NK. Why does this one strike you as a) the most likely scenario and b) the one we should worry about?
Rightio, then. Given what can only be described as you fucking about with claims on D1, do you think we should believe any claim you make at any point during the rest of this game?
Tiruin
Why not post them publicly? I mean you could've spent the time you weren't posting here making up several reads lists to PM to different folks, given that in the later game people are going to be reading other people based on their reads as much as anything else.
Seems like an effort to obfuscate rather than help.
Well if you're gonna say that, there's nothing really to stop us saying "well the lack of a vote leaves a vacuum to be filled with conjecture until it can be filled with something more substantial, which won't happen if you don't vote and provide your own context."
There's the maxim (I have a lot of those for mafia) that as town, your vote is your voice. It is often the only weapon they have against the scum, so why wouldn't you use it?
You haven't been particularly active, so people find it hard to read you.
You didn't vote on D1, so people can't draw (solid) conclusions from that.
You're hiding your reads list behind a PM so people can't read you relative to what you think of other players.
What are we s'posed to do with you, then?
What's gonna get done about the intrigued feelings?
Gonna have to piggyback DA's attribution that you're play has been quite reactive, making it seem as though you're not all that interested in generating content, and trying to placate folk whenever they do interact with you.
Shakerag
Reasonable question I want to see answered, but considering the spate of inactivity we're having, is lurking something you think is exclusive to scum?
hector: I'm leaning scum on him at the moment over his interaction with me towards the end of D1. I mentioned the possibility that TBF was third party rather than scum, which hector took as meaning that I didn't think he was a third party, not scum. Fine, I clarify and say that I think that it's possible that he's not scum, but certainly isn't town-oriented. Hector asks why I'm focusing on third parties. Feels like some pretty weird misunderstanding at best, and blatant misconstruction at worst.Spoiler: Relevant quote (click to show/hide)
Just for clarity's sake, your response to that question you broke off at the end, there: (I wonder why...)
hector: I didn't say that I think TBF is more likely to be a third party than scum. I still think scum is the most likely option, but if I'm wrong about that he's almost certainly third party.
If he happens to flip town, the town won't be better off, clearly.
Anyway, cynical!hector would think that you're twisting an argument to suit your read, in both cases.
That's an interesting way to put things, seeing as you were the one to bring up the issue of TPs on D1 in regards to your vote. You said if TBF wasn't scum, he was a TP, which - as implied by my questions - struck me as an odd thing to be worrying about for town on D1. It doesn't even look like you considered the possibility of him being incompetent town.
Certainly, there were a number of players on D1 who could fit the bill of not having the town's best interests at heart. TDS posted a handful of times, Tiruin promised a reads list before day end that never came, I tunneled on TBF for ~30 hours, IronyOwl was voting for themselves at the end of the day; the list goes on.
Why did TBF deserve to be voted over these other players on the terms you settled on?
TBF
I take it you no longer feel RattyB is scum?
doll
"Brevity" should be your watchword.
This is a severely overpopulated Day 2.
What do you think that means?
Spoiler: relevant, but excessive (click to show/hide)
Tiruin
Your broken promise has created a bottomless pool of misgivings casting doubt on any justification you might give for behavior on Day 1.
This pool has already swallowed up your Day 1 reads, as well as any earlier reads from Day 1 you might have had, as well as your opportunity for activity during Day 1.
Please post something useful.
A lot of this seems to be based around Tiruin saying she doesn't have much time, which I find to be a tremendously unfair argument. How is she going to prove that she's busy? Photograph paystubs and timesheets? A signed affidavit from her employer and any person she was with?
Then you assume that all the time she has is going to be put toward mafia, as opposed to working. Or sleeping. Or eating. What are you trying to prove with these points?
The biggest issue you should have here is that she promised something that didn't materialise. Why not focus on that, as opposed to trying to be Magnanimous PI and all but outright state she's lying about being busy?
Then we get this, amidst another post of your's decrying Tiruin's busyness:
Tiruin
I don't want to lynch you since it sounds like the alternative is you making a huge contribution to the game, but maybe that's just my imagination. Like TDS and RattyB and TBF you're an easy lynch right now, and killing you tells me nothing and helps maybe not at all, but at the same time it also in no way helps that you are alive. Unlike the others, you've drawn attention to yourself, so you've got me as your captive audience, and my attention means my vote.
Explain to me where I should be putting it.
So... d'ya think pressure votes are at all useful when you say they're pressure votes?
- basically, 4mask is shit -
In other words, I appreciate your activity and hope that you continue to post.
Something of a dichotomy, there.
You spent some of your time essentially saying 4mask's D1 play was shite, and then say nice things about his activity.
cynical!hector rears his head again, and thinks that you're thinking of setting 4mask up if you can't find another easy lynch today.
I think doll is definitely scum, but i don't know yet if webadict is on doll's side intentionally, or because he was fooled.I don't want to justify this with a response but since I'm going to need your vote later in the game (since no scum in their right minds are going to kill a player like you), why do you think I'm scum and why aren't you voting me?
I guess I've got to write about hector, TDS and TBF some more, but before I do so, I have general questions for the town:
Since there may be a hivemind, how should we modify our behavior to play around that (if we are to do so)?
There's multiple reasons why there was only one NK. Why does this one strike you as a) the most likely scenario and b) the one we should worry about?
I am an observant guard.
Night 1 I visited Shakerag. I did this because in the lucky event that I died, I think either he or IronyOwl would have been the most reliable individuals to 'lead the town' as it were, or at least negotiate the morass of anti-town activity, webadict shenanigans, and regular players like Leafsnail and DA and successfully use whatever information I pass on. Between the two of them, I had a stronger read on Shakerag as town (as opposed to Irony, who was largely an unknown).
Nothing happed during the night that I was made aware of. I was not roleblocked or redirected or otherwise interfered with in any way that I could see.
Rightio, then. Given what can only be described as you fucking about with claims on D1, do you think we should believe any claim you make at any point during the rest of this game?
Tiruin
So I've a written list of reeds (Tiruin does Papyrus making) from this point but wish to hear a response from the people mentioned in post ^.
I can PM the list to those curious :O
Why not post them publicly? I mean you could've spent the time you weren't posting here making up several reads lists to PM to different folks, given that in the later game people are going to be reading other people based on their reads as much as anything else.
Seems like an effort to obfuscate rather than help.
And yes, I didn't vote. While I agree that that may mean something significant--contextually, it's not significant enough to rely only on abstracted statistics and validate it as the measure of the Town. While a vote is considerably of Town-side-usage, it's also in the context and content of how one makes their vote; like if to consider the content you have had lately, it's...believable. Pointy, and somewhat overly direct, but believable to see your gestures and addresses to others.
Well if you're gonna say that, there's nothing really to stop us saying "well the lack of a vote leaves a vacuum to be filled with conjecture until it can be filled with something more substantial, which won't happen if you don't vote and provide your own context."
There's the maxim (I have a lot of those for mafia) that as town, your vote is your voice. It is often the only weapon they have against the scum, so why wouldn't you use it?
You haven't been particularly active, so people find it hard to read you.
You didn't vote on D1, so people can't draw (solid) conclusions from that.
You're hiding your reads list behind a PM so people can't read you relative to what you think of other players.
What are we s'posed to do with you, then?
Spoiler-related-importance, this is my feeling towards you and webadict.Spoiler: Also the Leafsnail reference (click to show/hide)
I am intrigued.
What's gonna get done about the intrigued feelings?
Gonna have to piggyback DA's attribution that you're play has been quite reactive, making it seem as though you're not all that interested in generating content, and trying to placate folk whenever they do interact with you.
Shakerag
TheDarkStar: If you weren't lurking scum, who would you have voted for D1 and why?
Reasonable question I want to see answered, but considering the spate of inactivity we're having, is lurking something you think is exclusive to scum?