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Messages - Rafe

Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]
106
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Sealing holes made by up/down stairs
« on: June 25, 2012, 01:44:50 pm »
Thank you ghostdwemer, you and Nickbii make sense. And yes i to tend to overthink things. This is the most i've played DF and i'm doing it very very slow.

107
DF Gameplay Questions / Cappucin siege
« on: June 25, 2012, 01:41:38 pm »
Forgive my inexperience but i was just besieged by Cappucin's monkey's, about 5 or 6 of them scattered my chicken pasture on the surface and then entered my new fort causing multiple job cancelations. Luckily war dogs tore them into pieces.

It occured to me i should then zone (i) a pen for the war dogs at the entrance to my base and add a few dogs to my chicken pen above ground.

Did i do the right thing ?

Two other things occurred to me. 1 make a hunter and have him kill the capucin's, but i don't have any real weapons or adept hunters.
 tree make a military and directly order an attack on cappucin's( i have no yet learne dthe military interface)

Also i'm getting aroudn to laying some cage traps.

Also there is blood and dismember limbs all over my main stairways. Should i clean this up immediately ?

108
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Sealing holes made by up/down stairs
« on: June 25, 2012, 01:05:56 pm »
Quote from: Corai on June 25, 2012, 12:36:22 am
*Convert to up stair*


That means they can get up, but not back down.

Are you certain because if i interpret the last two responses to my thread that is not correct.

Also according to this pictogram http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:DF_Terraform.PNG on the wiki   every level consists of a block adn then a tile entity on top of that block.

The down stairs compoment of the up down staircase(not sure if it's the same for the down stairs) will occupy the tile while the up component of the up down stairs will occupy the block or main component.

What i did was remove the tile entity or the down component of the up/down stairs, replacing or converting to and up stair.

Also it says on the wiki "These have nothing to do with the direction of travel, but only where they connect to and from. (To understand how stairs work and don't work, first make sure you understand how z-layers work.) " your response suggests that some polarity exist with respect to how stairs work with respect to entity movement which is very confusing and under my interpretation of up down stairs wiki seems to be in conflict with this statement.

Anyway as of now the updown is gone and an up is in it's place. One Y or Z layer below( i tend to think as Y as altitude or depth)  there is an up/down but i figure i sealed it off.

I cannot seem to check with "k" if a floor tile exists so i must assume by converting updown to up only the floor tile has been sealed.

109
DF Gameplay Questions / Sealing holes made by up/down stairs
« on: June 25, 2012, 12:32:48 am »
So i've started a game and am for the first time exploring deep. I've found a few caverns and unfortuantlely opened up a ceiling of one of them by making up/down stairs.
I understand hostiles that can fly could potentially access my fortress so i went up a few Z layers away from the opening and managed to somehow convert the Up/down stairs into an Up stairs. Is this sufficient to stop the movement of anything with flight or without?

My reasoning was the the lack of and up down would prevent anything that walks to access teh stairwell. However i'm unsure as to check for a hole and seal this up.

Can anybody advise? thanks.

110
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Surface rock
« on: May 23, 2011, 10:53:24 pm »
I have found many surface boulders but cannot seem to destoy these with pickaxes to recover the stone. Is there a way to actually harvest rock from these or even move them?

111
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Aquifers, without hacking them off.
« on: December 28, 2010, 01:21:04 am »
Does this mean i need 4 pump operators?

112
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Aquifers, without hacking them off.
« on: December 27, 2010, 04:43:32 am »
Quote from: Hans Lemurson on December 27, 2010, 04:08:31 am


A few questions before I attempt this
“Mark a 4x4 square at the top layer of your aquifer and dig a channel in its 4 corner tiles.”
This means I’m digging above the aquifer level, I haven’t breached any of the aquifer walls yet correct?
If so it will essentially look like this

O##O
####
####
O##O

O = channel
# = normal floor

“(Set up a stockpile nearby to hold pump components, since you'll be constructing/deconstructing pumps a bunch)”

One of the things I’m beginning to realize is that my one pump is probably going to have to be deconstructed and moved a few times. I was under the impression I would only need to place the pump once. I think that was a naive assumption. I’m beginning to wonder if I need multiple pumps operating simultaneously.
“Swimming Masons to smooth some of the walls around the hole.”
The layers I’m dealing with are sedimentary so I’m not sure I can smooth them, can I? I think sedimentary is the correct term, they are basically very high layers and I don’t get any useful rock from them.  Also is swimming skill necessary to build or smooth in areas with 2 or more water?. I find once water is on a tile there isn’t much I can do with that tile anymore.
“If you smooth ALL of the walls, then as you're working on the last hole, you won't have any place to pump its water into. “

Unless I’ve misinterpreted your technique couldn’t I just do this.?

O##O         X##X
####         ####
####    ->  ####
O##O         X##O (pump)> O      <-makeshift hole to serve as final drain.
                                                             X= smoothed stone

Perhaps this is why I wasn’t having much success I was trying to build walls rather then smooth stone. I hope I can smooth on upper layers I will try to give this a shot as soon as possible thanks fro the advice.

Oh yeah one more thing, can I forbid my pump architect carpenter from using the pump block for wall components? I know there is a forbid option but I’m nto sure it applies to specific things like machine components.

113
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Aquifers, without hacking them off.
« on: December 27, 2010, 02:42:31 am »
Quote from: slothen on December 26, 2010, 05:03:34 am
A single pump will empty it enough for a dwarf to stand and channel out the middle tile into the second layer.  Once that is done, you can turn off the pump, and all the water in the top will drain into that tiny hole you put into the second layer.  Then you can expand the top room, and the increased amount of water will still drain just the same.  This eliminates the need for pumps while you secure the top layer.  Once that is done, you can tackle the next layer.

to answer your question, if you channel into an aquifer layer, it will fill with water.  Nothing will drain unless you manage to dig into a second layer.  Or if the top layer of aquifer changes z levels, you can channel a hole in the lower layer (this will fill to 7/7), and water produced in the top layer can be directed into it, magically disappearing into the 7/7 water from the lower layer.

Hopefully this answered at least a part of your question.

I've tried this a few times and what happens is i can penetrate the top aquifer no problem building tons of down staircases on the floor above it and Up/down on the actual 1st aquifer layer. This allows me to expand the aquifer room to whatever dimension i want, but the problem is i must incur a trade-off, in order to clear the upper aquifer level i must build and updown staircase below it to drain the top aquifer layer. This essentially traps me in the first layer because i cannot pump out the second layer. My 2nd layer 3x1 fissure XY dimensions are governed by whatever expansions i've made to teh top level aquifer.

To reiterate, in clearing the top layer aquifer i was forced to sacrifice my accessability to the 2nd layer aquifer by flooding it.

There is one way around this i can think of by it require tremendous amount of labor and maybe this is exactly  how it's done. I can envision making multiple 3x1's with pumps at each end or basically repeating the 3x1 fissure pump 4 times to make a cube of isolated aquifer. However it would likley require 8 movements of the pump and 2x4 fissures to isolate teh 1st layer aquifer cube which i could then channel. and that would leave me with a 6x6 room on the top aquifer layer which i would then have to repeat the process for the next layer.

Still once i crack through the floor fo teh 2nd level aquifer to teh 3rd level , which is not an aquifer how do i drain the water from non-aquiferous level.Without some means to drain infinitely, which the 3rd layer doesn't posssess i dont' see how this is possible.

114
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Aquifers, without hacking them off.
« on: December 26, 2010, 11:00:09 pm »
Quote from: Rafe on December 26, 2010, 09:50:33 pm
Quote from: slothen on December 26, 2010, 05:03:34 am
you can exploit this if you have two layers of aquifer even if they are flat.  Lets say in the top layer you dig a 3x1 trench that then fills with water to 7/7.  A single pump will empty it enough for a dwarf to stand and channel out the middle tile into the second layer.  Once that is done, you can turn off the pump, and all the water in the top will drain into that tiny hole you put into the second layer.  Then you can expand the top room, and the increased amount of water will still drain just the same.  This eliminates the need for pumps while you secure the top layer.  Once that is done, you can tackle the next layer.

to answer your question, if you channel into an aquifer layer, it will fill with water.  Nothing will drain unless you manage to dig into a second layer.  Or if the top layer of aquifer changes z levels, you can channel a hole in the lower layer (this will fill to 7/7), and water produced in the top layer can be directed into it, magically disappearing into the 7/7 water from the lower layer.

Hopefully this answered at least a part of your question.

OKay this has been very helpfull, i have finally been able to breach 2 layers of aquifer, and at least stand on teh same level as the first for extended period of time, for the first time using your technique but that is as far as i was able to get, I create a small 3 x 1 and if i recall it has to be a channel not staircases of any kind( these dynamics still confuse me the difference betwen a channel and the three staircases when dealing with aquifers, under normal conditions i understand how they are used but here i find that sometimes making a channel works and sometimes stairs are necessary, i'm still trying to discover how the distinctions and have gone through multiple attempts, and more are necessary <<--- this ignorance may be what's stalling my progress with this problem) I'm able to pump into a sealed chamber with a channel that accepts infinite water and in doing this i have a downstaircase into my 3 x 1, i guess it's 2 x 1 because to get down i use a down staircase and not an up/down. Once on the top aquifer layer that is being pumped i breach down with an up/down staircase and if i turn off the pump the small upper aquifer crack ( the 3x1 or 2x1 whatever) will drain. however if i try to start making my 3x1 a 3x3 or i try to start cracking against the walls it seems to just accelerate water release, water will drain but not enough to facilitate building a wall to seal the  artificial aquifer breach.

Hold on i think i found a workaround by digging a downstaircase, now i've been able to successfully install flooring and walls on the first layer of aquifer.. I'm going to attempt to drain teh second layer soon and repeat the process , not sure how thta will go because , as far as my current method is concerned i've used the 2nd layer to clear the 1st layer of water, rendering teh 2nd layer a massive well of water, i'll have to economize in the second attempt.

115
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Aquifers, without hacking them off.
« on: December 26, 2010, 09:50:33 pm »
Quote from: slothen on December 26, 2010, 05:03:34 am
you can exploit this if you have two layers of aquifer even if they are flat.  Lets say in the top layer you dig a 3x1 trench that then fills with water to 7/7.  A single pump will empty it enough for a dwarf to stand and channel out the middle tile into the second layer.  Once that is done, you can turn off the pump, and all the water in the top will drain into that tiny hole you put into the second layer.  Then you can expand the top room, and the increased amount of water will still drain just the same.  This eliminates the need for pumps while you secure the top layer.  Once that is done, you can tackle the next layer.

to answer your question, if you channel into an aquifer layer, it will fill with water.  Nothing will drain unless you manage to dig into a second layer.  Or if the top layer of aquifer changes z levels, you can channel a hole in the lower layer (this will fill to 7/7), and water produced in the top layer can be directed into it, magically disappearing into the 7/7 water from the lower layer.

Hopefully this answered at least a part of your question.

OKay this has been very helpfull, i have finally been able to breach 2 layers of aquifer, and at least stand on teh same level as the first for extended period of time, for the first time using your technique but that is as far as i was able to get, I create a small 3 x 1 and if i recall it has to be a channel not staircases of any kind( these dynamics still confuse me the difference betwen a channel and the three staircases when dealing with aquifers, under normal conditions i understand how they are used but here i find that sometimes making a channel works and sometimes stairs are necessary, i'm still trying to discover how the distinctions and have gone through multiple attempts, and more are necessary <<--- this ignorance may be what's stalling my progress with this problem) I'm able to pump into a sealed chamber with a channel that accepts infinite water and in doing this i have a downstaircase into my 3 x 1, i guess it's 2 x 1 because to get down i use a down staircase and not an up/down. Once on the top aquifer layer that is being pumped i breach down with an up/down staircase and if i turn off the pump the small upper aquifer crack ( the 3x1 or 2x1 whatever) will drain. however if i try to start making my 3x1 a 3x3 or i try to start cracking against the walls it seems to just accelerate water release, water will drain but not enough to facilitate building a wall to seal the  artificial aquifer breach.


116
DF Gameplay Questions / Aquifers, without hacking them off.
« on: December 26, 2010, 04:51:13 am »
I’m new and am trying to grasp the aquifer problem. The wiki has been amazing describing all other things but when it comes to the 1st solution to on the aquifer page I’m perplexed. Oh and yes I know I can hack deactivate aquifer’s
Can anybody correct me if I’m wrong but that the 1st solution deals with digging until you find a variance in the depth of an aquifer; That is an aquifer that isn’t a flat sheet with no Z conformations but folds up and down in a vertical direction giving you opportunities to exploit the drainage properties of aquifers?

2 "With an up/down stairway or channel designation, a dwarf can break through the floor of the cell beneath him. That means a dwarf can stand on top of an aquifer layer, dig an up/down stairway, and make it drain into the layer beneath it, if that layer is also an aquifer or has an open path to an aquifer layer nearby. "

Does this mean that if I have encountered damp stone I can channel down into that damp stone, destroying it, releasing it’s water, and the water will do 1 of two things 1) it will drain immediately (leaving the void with no water) because the stone/earth beneath it is also aquifereous and acts like a sponge or 2) the opening will immediately fill with water which indicates that the aquifer is only 1 tile deep, the fact it isn’t draining shows without a doubt the impermeability of the rock beneath.

Thanks. I still don’t understand the first solution but this might increase the clarity with and help me interpret how this method is done.

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