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It's kind of a left-left discussion. Americain left wing is pretty weak and didn't achieve much.

But this :

Quote

If I lived under a nationalized healthcare system, I would have lost 2 family members in the past few years because they wouldn't have been treated in time. 

Is probably false : if a problem need immediate action, then it's immediately treated. For instance I had an hernia paralize my right leg, I had surgery within 3 hours of seeing a doctor.

It wasn't a case of emergency surgery needed (I have done my research, you know).  Under a nationalized system, we would have been triaged as 'not going to die right now' and scheduled when the doctors could get to it.  Because our healthcare system allows us to control appointment times, we shopped around, got better doctors and found a schedule opening.  It turned out the problem was way worse than the doctors had realized, and it was a very good thing we had pushed. Not being able to control doctors and scheduling would have left us in a much, much worse position.

There's no ideal system. I'd rather have this one than nationalized healthcare.  Other people prefer differently.  That's OK.  But stop demonizing systems and start thinking logically about how they can be improved.  National healthcare isn't good at a lot of things, and isn't necessarily the best solution, just like private healthcare isn't good at a lot of things and isn't necessarily the best solution.

The US does have public healthcare - Medicaid, Medicare, CHIP, etc - and what I know of those fills me with dismay at the thought of that being our only option.  The healthcare market place seems like a step in the right direction and I'm glad it was implemented, I think as we see greater acceptance of it things will improve.  Also, we're finally making progress on medical transparency, which is a huge help in controlling costs. Once people can treat medical treatment like other important products we'll get much better results overall I think.

Anyone going to Anime USA in a month?  I can, finally, and I'm excited.

Quote from: lijacote on August 30, 2014, 01:48:11 pm

If you don't know the basics, that is fine. Learning is good. Ignorance is not a sin. But for Khorne's sake, stop pontificating if you have no clue

You know, America is dead last in humans right among industrialised nations. Your emprisonment rate is the highest in the world, you have full fleged race riot every six month, and have literally the most unequal healthcare in the developed world. Policemen seems to be executing innocent citizens in total impunity, you lost all right to privacy, your employer can make policies on who you can and cannot date within the company, men have no maternity leave,...

Maybe it's time to admit that you have the basis wrong, and that you are not going anywhere until you change them.

Um.  I'll take your 'points' in order. 

1) Please learn to use spellcheck. And yes, we do imprison a really significant fraction of our population, and it is disgraceful.  On the other hand, we also have major problems that (for example) Japan and the EU don't, like major, multi-year drug wars right on our borders.  We also haven't recently forcibly created religious ghettos (here's looking at you, France). Or elected neo-Nazis likely to cause all kinds of official havoc (so we're ahead of Greece).

2) Race riots are actually pretty unusual over here.  That's why it's such big news when they happen.

3) No. US healthcare isn't perfect. But in many ways it is much better than nationalized healthcare systems (much quicker, for one thing). Nationalized healthcare isn't perfect, and I don't think it's even the best solution (which is probably some kind of hybrid public/private solution, in an ideal world).

4) We're going through major political pushback right now over police actions. This is not at all the same thing as 'police executing citizens with impunity'. 

5) Actually, US privacy protections are in some ways better than the EU's (Germany and the UK are much, much worse about constant surveillance and privacy invasions, for example).

6) Employers make policies restricting people from sexual harassment and unprofessional conduct in all developed countries. Are you supporting the idea of bosses being able to bully their subordinates into sex? 

7) It's called paternity leave.  Do use Google next time before posting screeds.

TL;DR  Learn to factcheck please.

Slavery was in trouble by the 1860s anyway, but probably the most "moral" thing of the North to do (if morality/freeing the slaves was their main priority as opposed to a practical way of depriving the seceding states of potential allies) would be to act against slavery, let the South secede, and then abolish fugitive slave laws and punishments for anyone involved in freeing slaves. Slaves would have a much easier time escaping to the North as opposed to Canada, and abolitionists acting in the South would generally have an easier time supporting the rescue of slaves. Within about 10-15 years, the South would either have to declare a war of aggression that they would surely lose to protect slavery, or they would ultimately abandon it peacefully and either remain independent or integrate back into the Union with no hassle. No Civil War, slavery (probably) ends peacefully (as indeed it did nearly everywhere else), no Reconstruction meaning no KKK and probably no Jim Crow or virulent racism as existed in the American South.

But this seems to be drifting a bit off topic.

The problem is that the South's economic structure was wholely dependent on slavery.  They were never, ever going to let it go.  Splitting up the US would have been a horrible move, and greatly weakened us at a point when other nations were in the middle of an imperialistic expansion.  In fact, Britain took the South's side in an attempt to weaken the whole continent and potentially get their colony back.  Letting the south secede simply wasn't a viable option.

In (not)Soviet Russia, mothers = foreign spies.   The Russian non-profit Soldier's Mothers has been declared a 'foreign' agent after stating that Russian soldiers (i.e. their sons) have been fighting, getting injured, and being killed, fighting in Ukraine.   Putin had the law amended to allow him to declare NGOs 'foreign agents' at will recently.   There's also reports that

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/justice-ministry-adds-2-more-ngos-to-foreign-agents-list/506142.html
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/news-item/russian-ngo-branded-as-foreign-agent-after-reporting-on-russian-military-action-in-ukraine

Also, Russian journalists are reporting secret military funerals for Russian paratroopers, and that they were threatened and attacked while investigating. http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-russia-journalists-attacked-20140827-story.html

U.S. and Ukrainian officials are reporting full-scale invasions by Russian troops.   http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/

I remember reading somewhere that in the USA, the training and support given to officers runs at about 50% in terms of cost and time when compared to other forces - I think the comparison was with the UK. That is ridiculous when you consider some of the challenges faced in law enforcement in the US (what with prevalent guns and on occasion serious class A drug issues).

You've got that backwards. 

Drug issues are definitely more than 'occasional'.  They're widespread and very, very serious.  I've lived in urban areas, suburban areas and rural areas and every single one had serious drug problems. The only difference is what kind of drugs - meth is rural, for example.   Legal gun ownership doesn't really correlate with crime, but drug problems correlate with illegal gun ownership, gangs and lots and lots of violence.  Americans are generally much more worried about people with drugs (especially the gangs with drugs, who will also have illegal weaponry) than people following the law and getting a gun license to go hunting.

I might take a look at this, but I'm just getting back into Guild Wars 2 and it's hard to do 2 MMOs.  How much would I need to play to keep a claim?

GW2 is 50% off until Aug 24, so if you have a friend wanting to get into it now's the time: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/save-50-percent-on-guild-wars-2-now-until-august-24/?utm_source=client