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Messages - Saiko Kila

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241
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« on: November 17, 2018, 05:36:39 pm »
I'd look at it when I have time tomorrow (since it would be 7th version I'd need to to modify for my fortress :) ) but there's one bug I noticed earlier: the thresholds for animal size are one order of magnitude too high. This is reason why things like wolf's spleen is tagged as "too small". The thresholds are apparently in grams (the same as in real RAWs, for example 40000 for wolf's adult size), while the raw structure in dfhack uses decagrams (the same as in-game displayed size for traps, or body size in unit structures, for example 4000 for wolf). So line
Code: [Select]
          if min_butcher_size [material.material.id] > material.creature.adultsize thenshould be
Code: [Select]
          if min_butcher_size [material.material.id] > material.creature.adultsize*10 thento account for that.

242
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Doctor Loop
« on: November 17, 2018, 04:52:17 pm »
In the first case it should be OK - or at least such loops are sometimes seen, and they are resolved without problems, but after some time. I had dwarves with pages after pages of diagnosis history. It seems than one diagnose may lead to another. However, take note if he doesn't have a long list of diagnoses already ordered.

In the second case, it depends on what is causing the trouble. It may be intoxication, or damage to the chests or lungs, or to the nervous system, or a syndrome other than intoxication. The first three are usually (heh) not deadly and they should pass, while the other two may pass or not, and can be lethal.

Small damage to the lungs can cause intermittent breathing trouble, which will actually train the dwarf a bit in toughness and endurance.

243
I have not tried it, and not only because I hate unequal political systems (including all with VIPs and aristocracy).

The dwarves do like performing actions seemingly out of place, like a noble working in a smithy, or soldier writing a book. Also workers will be grumbling, though certainly they won't make an organised uprising yet. But things like uprising are possible in the world beyond your fortress, and will be even more fleshed out in the future updates, so there's at least hope for this fragment of sad reality.

In your scheme the artisans would be most happy probably, while nobles, haulers and soldiers will have many reason to object. Additionally children bear not much of skills of their parents, so it is possible than a scion of a mathematical genius would be imbecile (I mean, more imbecile, because even mathematical geniuses in this game are quite stupid), and should be hauling things (and cheaper ones) instead of continuing the family tradition.

By the way, most common way of training soldiers already doesn't give them much time for working, and people actively modify the schedule so soldiers can do something outside of barracks and fulfil their needs.

244
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« on: November 16, 2018, 02:39:56 pm »
Given that "normal" vermin body parts can appear, it might not be too surprising aquatic can appear as well. The output pasted also show Dwarven Cheese flagged incorrectly, as it's supposed to be possible to milk purring maggots.

It's not surprising that it appears, what I find surprising is that it seems to be much rarer than the proper (whole) vermin, which supposedly is an artefact of the algorithm which determines the whole preference. I think it may run and choose whether a dwarf wants a vermin or a meat (or whatever), and if it wants meat, is just runs through all, including vermin. And maybe aquatic vermin are counted separately.

Ad for purring maggot, yes, that's how it shows. But I would love to see actual purring maggot and processing of it - maybe it is bugged in game, and the script shows truth?

Quote
If the "resident" flag means "cavern denizen", how do you determine if a non citizen is a resident (and not e.g. a visitor from your own civ)?

I just include your script with modifications I made (i.e. one with logging and with counting citizens and long-term residents). I use a function I made for other script. Similarly to isCitizen() function, it checks flags and conditions - it calls isCitizen() in the beginning, and only performs checks if false is returned. I assume that it is faster than rewriting the isCitizen() in Lua to account for the long-term residents, also it's easier to customize (for example it returns 3 for visitors and diplomats, but not merchants, since merchants don't use my taverns while diplomats do).

At the end the total sum of citizens and LTRs is shown, and it should be the same as number of people in the Citizen tab in "u"-screen. If it is different, then there's something wrong. I had to make this function for my scripts, because sometimes there are goblins or necromancers with visitor flags, and other irregularities. But the most important is determination of all guys in the Citizen tabs, since they do most stuff, like eating, drinking, clothes wearing etc.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote
The plot and zone name matching are indeed based on other scripts I use, and shouldn't be used in scripts shared with others (unless the others are as well, as part of a package). I use one script for logging to spare useful trees and, in its latest version, set up gathering zones around them (I did that manually previously), and another one yearly to enable/disable farm plots and zones to attempt to keep a desired booze supply. The script names plots after what's planted on them by the player and uses the name to find fallow plots allocated to a given crop when it's time to plant again. However, it's tailored to my play style of trying to grew crops in spring (those that can't be planted in spring are allocated to the earliest possible season), harvest fruit in summer, catch up on all the hauling that's built up over the first half of the year, and R&R (and militia training) during winter.

OK, clear then. I think I can modify it to look for plants in the structure of fields, at least. Anything, this part of the script is useful anyway, because it shows all these poor critters and their preferences as it is. And now I can log it, to maybe make some statistics if I do it for more forts, to satisfy my curiosity.

One thing about the too small items - this is probably more a warning that exact declaration, because bigger specimens could potentially bring these items (like dog's spleen or coyote's heart), right? My non available items now look like this. Very singular tastes, these dwarves have :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

245
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Well Access
« on: November 16, 2018, 01:00:33 pm »
My take would be looking at the drinking orders (o-z and then optionally d) to see that there's no "Zone-only drinking".

Well is Active if it has 3 or more water somewhere below. Water source (for zones) is active only if there is 2 or more water directly level below. So in this case the well may be active, but the zone (if there is a zone near well at all) would have 0 as water source. If "Prefer zone drinking" is set, and the dwarves still can't give water, then maybe giving water requires actual water drinking zone?

I can't test it, because I don't have patients right now, and I always set artificial wells as water sources (with water multiple Z-levels below, starting immediately one level below).

246
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« on: November 16, 2018, 08:36:17 am »
Eggs, fish, and raw fish all lack the kind of internal structure (other) animals and plant have, so they can only be preferred as the whole items. Eggs are particular in that the actually have a different internal structure in the form of shell, white, and yolk.
It can also be noted that Feather Tree Eggs are bugged and cannot be acquired, but eleven caravans litter the trade depot with Feather Tree Egg Yolk (which cannot be picked up and used).

After last post some lover of aquatic vermin body parts have appeared in my fortress. Here's excerpt from your (older) script's output:
Code: [Select]
hagfish gut     1
hake    5
hake liver tissue       1

Both hagfish and hake are water vermin, apparently sometimes dwarves are inquisitive enough to find what hides inside these vermin...
The guys who love hake have this preference:
 item_type: 48 (i.e. FISH)
 item_subtype: -1
 mattype: 550 (this one is race ID of the creature, hake in default RAWs)
 matindex: -1

The guy who loves hake's liver has this preference (he also likes a whole vermin fish of another species, he's a fish guy):
 item_type: 47 (i.e. MEAT)
 item_subtype: -1
 mattype: 29 (this means liver)
 matindex: 550 (and here the ID)

So clearly sometimes, when choosing meat, the vermin are considered by game. I don't know why so rarely, but still in my game it's more often than pigs, llamas, cows, horses or other domestic animals, which have zero lovers. Except cheese and milk, yeah, these are preferred by some gourmands.

Quote
My biome hacking includes trees, yes. For some reason it tends to take a few years for saplings of most temperate fruit trees to appear, but since they only take 3 years to mature, it's not a big deal.

Ideally, migrant (and petitioner) preferences ought to be based on their background, which means it ought to be based on what was available in the places they've lived (which ought to include what's available via trade). I agree preferences ought to develop over time, with newborn being blank slates, but if so, the process ought to be capable of blocking stuff exposed to (i.e. I've only ever eaten Plump Helmet, and I don't like it and will never do so. Please let me try other things! Hm, Cave Wheat. Novel, but no, I won't grow attached to that either). However, currently newborn are fully formed with preferences, views, personality traits, etc.

Yep, their initial state should be blank, though they should have some preference chances. But even if it remained like it is, it should be more rational when choosing. You can't like something no one ever seen ;)

Quote
Edit: Looking more into preferences, I see no whole creature preferences in my fortress, except for vermin (moghopper) and vermin fish, while there is a preference for Pike Kidney Tissue (and looking at the raws for Pike shows it's a creature, not vermin).
I've also found that mead isn't actually booze cookable.

Ah, so they won't make mead roasts.  But it's a kind of moot point, you see, because of peculiar behaviour of eaters and drinkers who do not have their preferred food: they choose whatever was produced or brewed recently. In case of food it's often horse tripe or pig intestine (i.e. not a big deal usually), but in case of alcohol it can be mead - which is rarely made. I have over 20 hives, and when mead is made, even if it's more than one unit, it's all gone before sunset, because of this behaviour. So I wouldn't be able to make a mead roast anyway.

In case of meat I sometimes butcher the extra rare creature surrounded by common creatures - for example a beak dog, an eagle (rare), a llama and another llama. This usually "saturates" the market so the rare eagle parts won't be instantly eaten by some boor who can't appreciate them. But this can tedious, and I can do it only for the most valued dwarves anyway.

As for aquatic vermin parts - as seen in my example above, they can happen. But they are quite rare for some reason.

Quote
Edit 2: Is it known what the size limits for butchering and slaughtering are, and if there's more than just bones that won't appear if the creature is too small to yield anything but skull and meat? I'm fairly sure a Magpie is too small to be butchered (to satisfy a need for Magpie Gut), but would a Buzzard (which appears to be a borderline species that sometimes yields just a skull and meat, and sometimes a more complete result) produce a Gut part in either or both cases?

Edit 3: I've found that the "[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]" token from the raws can be accessed from the creature raw to determine if a creature is labelled as butcherable (which showed that the Magpie in Edit 2 is marked as [NON_BUTCHERABLE]).

A marginally updated food_needs script that flags the impossible items I know of as impossible (butcher products from creatures that can't be butchered, bumblebee honey/mead, feather tree egg parts).

I've run the new script (after modifying to count my long-term residents) and here's the part about vermin:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

These are some queer preferences, I'd say.

Now, about the script: it proved most useful, but I had to make some modifications, and there's a part which apparently works differently for you. The modifications I made are logging (because output is too big for my console's buffer), and determination of long-term residents (because otherwise only full citizens are counted, and my fortress has more long-terms than citizens). As a side note, the flag "resident" means that the critter is a and underground cave dweller (I don't know why it's named resident, "underground" or "caverns" would be better), just like "underworld" means that it is a hell dweller.

The part I do not understand is the one which checks the plots (and zones), specifically compares their name to the material id. In my game this field contains the nickname of the field the player can give, so the result of comparison is always false, i.e. #drink_demands and #food_demands will be always zero. Do you use a script which populates these names with IDs maybe?

247
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: at war with own civ
« on: November 16, 2018, 04:58:29 am »
You should have given the adamantine sock to the quester and be done with it. Now it's too late.

Caravans just stop coming.  Migrants stop coming.  The home civ has not attacked the player site in any report I've seen.  There is still an outpost liaison, but said liaison does not arrive and there is no announcement that the liaison didn't show up.

It seems like a pretty common occurrence if you run the game long enough.  My civil war came after ~25 years, but a recent one I found had the war start in the first winter after gameplay began.

You weren't trying to become a capital before that? It would be interesting if they waged a war against a capital.

248
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Fastest current way to train?
« on: November 16, 2018, 03:00:05 am »
I train my crossbowmen in shooting first, without assigning to barracks (actually I just do live training, to get them to level 5 quickly), then assign to barracks to let them train other skills. Such dwarves won't charge into melee, and certainly won't climb over obstacles to charge. I observe such behaviour in greenhorn replacement, who weren't properly trained according to this regimen. Shooters should have more shooting weapon skill than melee weapon skill.

There is a bug with mixed squads - for example if I have 8 marksdwarves and 2 bowmen, only arrows are assigned to the squad, so eight people have no ammo. I have not found solution for this yet, apart from not mixing bows with crossbows.

By the way, legendary skill in ranged weapon doesn't mean the soldier is some real sharpshooter. It still can take over 200 bolts to bring down one enemy, and in case of fliers most of the bolts just don't connect.

The reason the dwarves in the OP don't level is already mentioned - the 2 minimum is more like 2 maximum. I set mine to 8 (so dwarves can occasionally do something for their needs) and it seems everything works fine. Well, except the initial training of marksmen, where they can pick up bad habits.

249
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to become a bandit lord in three steps.
« on: November 15, 2018, 03:42:18 pm »
Do these bandits ever give seeds or raw plants? It's probably low chance even if they do, but please report if you see them doing this.

As a side note, when I see bandits in adventurer, it's hard not to try to wipe them out for the most awesome ranged weapon, that is coins.

250
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Animal breeding
« on: November 15, 2018, 12:45:01 pm »
Really it works? Well, that's new to me. However, I haven't checked it recently, because it would be tedious to do - the cage is best keep outside of the pasture  (otherwise if you order the caged animals to be pastured the dwarves think it is already pastured), and male and female must be in touch to get the female pregnant, so they should be in the same pasture.

Double males do nothing - the female can't be impregnated once already pregnant. And they animals are rather quick when the appropriate mate is around.

251
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Animal breeding
« on: November 15, 2018, 12:09:47 pm »
One breeding male is enough. I keep the best one, usually the strongest or biggest. The rest are in the cage, or in case of grazers in another pasture or just gelded. Sometimes when I cannot decide I keep two, one strongest, one biggest.

When the animal is born I inspect it to see how big and strong it is in comparison to the average of its species (taking mental note if the newborns of this species are more like 10% or 20% of adult), and when I buy or catch animal I do the same, except a comparison is more direct. Of course a check of preferences is also needed. Fortunately males which only like females are good for breeding, unlike in case of dwarves.

252
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Random Questions
« on: November 15, 2018, 09:22:47 am »
No, it hasn't changed. I finally observed one performer serving alcohol. It is probably caused by my setup, with multiple locations, but only one and very small zone for actual alcohols, overlaying a part of the bigger storage. Served alcohols must be in this zone, but it is also available to dwarves who drink on their own.

Since I have two dozen of dwarves drinking at any moment, and they usually prefer the tavern zone (because it's close to the entry) they often reserve all its alcohol. Additionally serving alcohol in this setup takes excruciatingly long time (needed to squeeze through the corridors to collect mugs, then alcohol, then go the customer, each step possibly in other part of the fortress), plus the performers apparently like to make other things in the meantime, it just happens very rarely.

Anyway, I will turn off the tavernkeepers too, because I wanted only to see if it fulfils the need for helping others. Well, it does not.

253
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack 0.44.12-r1
« on: November 15, 2018, 07:33:44 am »
There's one bug with position.lua script, which manifests itself on the last day of the year.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is caused by algorithm calculating the month to be 13th. This algorithm actually causes each last day of the month to be treated as the 0th day of the subsequent month.

254
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Random Questions
« on: November 14, 2018, 03:23:47 pm »
The way storing items works in DF, I don't think it's a good idea to have storage for goblets at all. Dwarves in need should pick it up from the workshop first time, and then just from the floor in booze storage (or distillery) for the rest of mug's life.

I also don't have booze storage in tavern and usually only performers (no tavernkeep), so no one is poisoning anyone, despite having storage of mugs (which is more for show than for anything). The drinkers go to the booze storage, pick-up the goblet usually sitting on top of the pot, fill it with one unit of booze and drink. Once finished they drop the goblet back. It's a perfect solution, they never complain, and all except gobbos and vampires have their booze need fulfilled.

Now, gobbos do need the tube-feeding (tube-watering?), but playing with gobbos is weird.


255
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Demon Kings CAN be Beaten.
« on: November 14, 2018, 02:57:00 pm »
The archdemons have LEV 14 in their combat related skill usually, maybe more with some levelling. I think that the main reason they are hard to kill is their size advantage (and dodging, which they also have at 14 which is comparatively more than other skills (*)). In worlds I made for test or play it is very rare for any of them actually to survive till my era, they are killed by random mooks...

Next time I will try history of 125 years, so they can still be alive. I would prefer to be attacked by them in person than initiate the attack, though.


*) My melee dwarves usually attain LEV 14 in dodging when they are around LEV 60 in melee combat, and about LEV 40 in their chosen weapon, just for perspective. As a rule of thumb, dodging is about 4x lower than melee combat in trained soldiers. But demons (and other monsters with natural fighting skills) get both at the same level.

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