Bay 12 Games Forum

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Originally posted by Explorer:
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But it seems to me that DF is a game trying to be consistent with itself. A fantasy world simulator must have a way to explain things. Dwarves Goblins, etc don't exist in our world, but they do in DF, so that's a difference. However, the laws of physics in DF are the same as in our world, so normal magma should cool lose its energy over time and cool down.</STRONG>

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It's pretty arbitrary to say the DF world universally obeys the laws of physics.  The laws of physics applied to geology dictate that a magma river passing through the depths of a mountain that dwarfs would be able to dig into and utilize as a forging method is pretty much impossible.  It's there for gameplay...  Pretty much any magma at all is there for gameplay.  When magma hits air it's only a matter of time before it turns to rock, and digging down into magma pits your pretty much infinitely more likely to hit poisonous gas than actual real magma.  If we're willing to accept the plausibility of geologically discovering and then using this magical safe magma we have in DF, than we don't need to obey other arbitrary rules about it's use.  It's there for gameplay reasons, not because it's acctually realistic.

If you're going to make an argument for how something regarding magma should be done than argue for what it will contribute to gameplay, not because it "is realistic".  When it comes to game design you have to be VERY careful using realism correctly, if used to excessively you get massive CPU requirements for games that are boring because they just simulate things that you could go do in real life anyways.  Game realism needs to be used to expound the complexity of gameplay systems and allow players nodes of attachment they can use as mental grounding points for an immersive experience.  Basically, always be willing to disregard 'realism' when it will limit what the player can do/experience with the game.  It's perfectly acceptable for a gameplay device to be highly unrealistic.

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Originally posted by puke:
<STRONG>yeah, you can re-use the same guy.  they even keep their old companions, unless theyre elves.  if you recruit elves, they just wander off when you retire.

un-retired adventurers loose most of their memory.  they forget their map, and get a new map based on the kingdom that they retire on.  also, they forget about everything in their entites list, and no longer have any affiliation status with any of the towns or kingdoms.

i dont know what happens to your criminal status.  ive never retired a criminal.</STRONG>

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Ugg, that's kind of a kudgel fisted way of handling things we've got right now, isn't it...  If some legendary warrior retires and then is forced back into action, no one will have forgotten about them...  The world will have changed significantly, but many things will still be constant.

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Originally posted by Grek:
<STRONG>Once proper breeding goes in this shouldn't be an issue. Animals would only be in places where they are born or in places they can walk to from where they where born without being killed by guards.</STRONG>

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Simulated breeding doesn't necessarily mean simulated macromap movement.  It would be too performance intensive to track the micromap location of every world generated animal in the entire world at every point in time.  It's probably not really even worth it to simulate the existence of an animal as anything more signifigant than an int counter point until the player has seen it before.

New user here , just read a good 20-30 pages in this thread.

Um, regarding the issue of dwarfs crafting and encrusting stupid things... one possible fix could be to restrict piles that any given dwarf working at a specific craftshop is allowed to pull stuff from.  If I don't want dwarfs encrusting mechanisms (which I think is a pretty fair demand) I can block mechanisms from being stored in the pile the jewelers shop is allowed to grab finished goods/furniture/other crap from and put them in a different pile.

This kind of solves the problem the same way we solve it right now in game, but it would have that extra AI layer that provides a bit of safety for the newer players who don't plan their fort out as obsessively as the more experienced players have become used to needing to.

Regarding other general development progress, no offense intended to anyone, but in all honesty, as cool as some of these new features are my biggest frustrations with the game right now are by far interface and bug problems.  It drives me nuts to no end when I set up a magma forge and general base on the far end of my fort, with the idea being that miners and metalsmiths could work autonomously without having to go back to the main base in order for any of their nessesities, and then just finding that 95% of my fortress spends most of their time trekking back and forth rather than just choosing an area to regular and staying there for the most part.  And the metal smiths don't even work the magma forges and smelters for a reason I can't discern, and nearly every strange mood dwarf I have gets stuck on a spot outside rather then claiming a workshop and going through their little ditty the way they are supposed to, and then a permaflood comes and destroys everything.  In terms of the game falling apart in the late game, what people seem to be attributing to unfinished features and poor game construction is IMO 90% that the game gets exponentially more buggy the longer you play.

Not to discourage feature development in any way, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

[edit]I wanted to add a thought I had on location selection in the new version, now that the old system of deciding simply based on external factors won't be all players are concerned about...  How about tying some sort of point cost to more advanced site surveying information.  It seems some players would like a little more surprise when it comes to what they will encounter in their site... and it seems they would need a little more starting resources to establish as effectively.  And others don't want to be shocked to find there is nearly no water on the map they selected when thier strategy is heavily dependant on good water supplies.  To me it makes logical sense that dwarfs surveying in depth every site they encounter would take a lot longer deciding on a site, and would therefore have depleted much more resources in travel.  Of course if you don't want to suffer the loss of points for more detailed site information, you're probably the kind of player who's willing to cheat in the game for an easier experience anyways, so meh, you can cheat in the current version, nothing will change with the new one there.

[ July 07, 2007: Message edited by: SwiftSpear ]