Bay 12 Games Forum

Hi everyone, and thanks again for all the feedback.

NFO, thanks for sharing your story. I'm glad you and your wife have a happy relationship despite your differences. Do you find you often have conflicts because of this? Are you able to accommodate her emotional needs? Or does she always accommodate yours?

Nenjin, there are definitely reasons from his past why he is this way. I know about several already, and I can see how he uses this as a defense mechanism. Life is simpler if you see it in terms of black and white, and somewhere along the line he decided that he needed that simplicity - and it was reinforced very strongly by his father, as well as other things.

In any case, I have some  happy news to report. I had a long conversation with him earlier today (over skype - more than 90 minutes!) and it went very well. He was in a very good mood. He was joking a lot about "black and white", as I had used that term in our last conversation and he really latched on to it. He kept joking about Michael Jackson, things like that. I could see that he was concerned with this perception that I have of him and he was interested in exploring it. He kept trying to talk about it, and I kept trying to avoid it, but in the end, I decided it was a safe time to discuss some things.

So we talked about the thing that had triggered this whole issue: a TV series that he loves and thinks is perfect, a masterpiece, and he thinks I should change my perspective so that I can agree with him. We spent some time talking about it. I went into detail about specifically what I didn't like about it, compared to what I do like about another series. He thought the two series were essentially the same and he couldn't understand why I would like one but not the other - turns out he was judging them both on a single criterion, whereas I was judging them on many. I explained clearly the exact criteria I used and how I judged each of the series, and why that meant I enjoyed one but not the other. When I was done, he immediately said okay, that's a good explanation, that makes sense, I understand. And that was it! I couldn't believe how easy it was, actually.

Going from there, I took a chance and touched on a few other things that are sometimes problematic, and he was very open to listening to all I had to say, as long as I presented it logically (and I did). He was quite positive and in a good mood for the whole conversation, joking a lot and even teasing me a bit, but without being hurtful. At the end of the conversation, I felt like we had made some real progress, and that it had all been much easier than I expected.

All this reinforced my belief that he really does desire to be open-minded. He doesn't want to be hurtful or overly harsh. He is willing to accept new ideas and information, as long as it is rational. He didn't get defensive or angry at all. So I have a lot of hope for things to go very well between us in the future.

Hm... I'll have to consider this carefully. In general, he strongly prefers face-to-face and spoken communication over written. On the other hand, he knows my strong preference for written communication, and he is always willing to read things (at least initially) rather than talk about them so that I can sort out my thought processes and make my message clear and organized. Then we talk about it later, so we both get our preferred type of communication.

If I do it face to face, there's a strong chance that he will interrupt me frequently to tell me I'm wrong. It's also difficult for me to organize my thoughts in a face-to-face conversation (I'm hyperlexic and have trouble processing spoken communication) and it would be much more difficult for me to express what I want to express if I only do it face-to-face.

If I make it very clear to him that what I have to say is important, and that I have planned out how I want to say it, and that I need him to listen without interrupting, and that when I am finished, I will be quiet and give him his turn to say whatever he wants... he will probably listen quietly without interrupting. But then there is still the issue of organizing my thoughts well enough.

He definitely does respond better to data and evidence than to emotional descriptions. On the other hand, I've been reviewing a few of our conversations and discussions, and as long as I explain my position clearly and in a logical way, he does tend to listen even to emotional information - as long as it has a basis in logic.

He has also shown a desire to not be too harsh on other people. He's made it clear that one of his parents was far too hard on him as a child, far too strict and unyielding, and he doesn't want to be that way himself. Whenever he realizes that he may have been too hard and may have hurt someone with his words or actions, it actually keeps him up at night, and at the soonest opportunity, he makes contact to apologize and check that the other person is okay. So in this way, emotional appeals can be effective - if I point out that he is being too hard and it is causing other people pain.

I understand what you're saying and I know this is a possibility. For sure, I wouldn't try to change him completely. I know that it's part of his personality to go "all in" and be somewhat extreme in many ways. But I also know that he has shown an ability to empathize with new perspectives and admit previous errors on his part, which is why I'm going to try. My basic hope is that he will be just a little more open-minded with me, particularly when it comes to opinions - and to make a small adjustment from "if you disagree with me you are WRONG/BROKEN and need to be fixed" to something more like simply "I disagree with you." Just that would be enough for me to be happy with the situation. I don't need him to see all of life in shades of gray - I just need to know that we can compromise on key issues and not fall apart over small disagreements of opinion.

The link I'm currently considering is this one (not listed above): http://blog.palmpartners.com/dangers-black-white-thinking/

It's focused around addiction, but the majority of the information is universal and applicable to life/relationships in general.

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Black/white thinking is common this type of toxic person, but this guy is not toxic. He is caring, compassionate, and very well-intentioned. He's just mistaking stubbornness and closed-mindedness for strength. It's a defense mechanism. He would never do anything to hurt anyone, but no one can get close to him as long as he refuses to bend on anything.

And my father appears caring, compassionate, and well intentioned Until you get to know him.

I know this guy *very* well. I understand your intentions in saying that, and appreciate your perspective (as I said, I have similar issues with my mother, so I really do know what you're talking about), but in this case, the source (and the expression) of the black/white thinking are different. I promise that I know this guy well enough to be past the barrier where you only see their public/external face. I know his dark side - and he is *still* caring, compassionate, and well-intentioned. Just misguided.

I've been getting really close to a gentleman friend of mine. He's a wonderful person with a really big heart. He's very kind and caring. He's very handsome and charming. But he's an extreme black and white thinker, and it's becoming a problem.

He sees everything in terms of extremes. Everything is "all or nothing." If he has an opinion, it's not an opinion, it's just a fact. Anyone who disagrees with him is wrong. He really believes that he always knows all the answers, always knows what's best not only for himself, but for everyone else. He doesn't see opinions, he sees "facts."

He thinks you can't succeed to any degree, at anything, unless you throw yourself into it 100%. He overworks himself constantly, unwilling to accept anything less than perfection - and he doesn't accept anything less than perfection in other people, either.

When I disagree with him about something, he tells me that there is something wrong with me, that it's something psychological that I need to work on and fix in myself. If I tell him it's not that simple, he immediately accuses me of "playing the victim" - and he has zero tolerance for people who think of themselves as "victims" - which to him just means people who claim not to be in 100% control of every detail of their lives.

I know that from this, it must sound strange that I say he's a great guy. But it's true. Everyone loves him. He is incredibly devoted, caring, generous, honest, and loyal. It's only recently that I've started to see just how black/white his thinking is. Here are some things I often hear him say:

"You need to..."
"It's all or nothing."
"You can't be weak. You have to be tough. You have to go all in or you'll never accomplish anything."
"The problem with people/him/her/you is..."
"You're missing out on some very important things by not recognizing the genius of (film/music/tv series/etc.)."
"It's a shame you don't see the truth (ie why he's right). Maybe someday you can overcome this."
"It doesn't work that way."
"That's just the way I am. I'm not going to / I can't change it."
"There are two kinds of people."
"There are good people and bad people."
"There are people who get it, and people who don't get it."
"There are people who go all in, and people who fail."

You get the idea.

On the other hand, there have been several times in the past where we have disagreed on something, and I have managed to get him to really listen to me. And when he decides to listen, he really listens. He is truly very compassionate, and when he makes the decision to empathize with someone and consider possibilities he didn't know about before, he goes all in, just like with everything else. He *is* willing to admit when he was wrong about something, as long as you can explain to him logically the reasons why.

For this reason, I'm not giving up hope. I think it may still be possible to get him to listen to the reasons why black/white thinking is bad/unhealthy/harmful. And if I can do that, he will surely work hard at changing this. But it will have to be done very carefully.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Can anyone offer any advice on doing this without just setting him off or getting him to label me a "bad" person?

One more thing that might be relevant, I'm autistic, and after some discussion, he and I have agreed that he is slightly autistic as well, though without sensory issues (we agreed on the expression "he has a streak of autism"). That combined with certain aspects of his childhood and younger life is probably the reason he developed this extreme type of thinking as a defense mechanism. I'm quite sure he is *not* borderline or narcissistic. He is not a "toxic" person by any stretch.

If anyone has no idea what the hell I'm talking about, check out these two links for some basic info:
http://www.theemotionmachine.com/the-problem-with-black-and-white-thinking
http://www.slowdownfast.com/get-rid-of-black-and-white-thinking-once-and-for-all/

So it's been like... 2 months now. My foot still hurts when I walk on it or stand for too long. I've been mostly resting it and walking as little as possible, but it hasn't really improved.

I managed to finally see a doctor today. Got an x-ray at a walk-in clinic. The doctor said he doesn't see any signs of a fracture, but that there could still be one and I'd need an MRI to be sure (something I can't currently get). He said it could be "metatarsalgia" which I looked up and that's apparently a symptom, not a condition, which literally just means "pain in the front part of your foot." I asked him what I should do and he said I should see a specialist. He wouldn't give me any advice beyond that because he basically has no idea what's wrong with me.

I can't get in to see a specialist until I'm back in Prague (3 more weeks). I'm pretty frustrated that this doctor was a waste of time. I still have no idea what I should be doing about this pain in my foot. The doctor said it's "probably" fine to walk on it. I have stayed off it almost completely for weeks now. It had stopped hurting altogether for over a week until yesterday, when I went shopping for a couple hours and in the evening it was screaming with pain again.

So yeah, I'm a little frustrated. I don't know what I should do. For reasons I don't feel like explaining now, I can't see a specialist until I'm back in Prague. Does anyone have any other advice? Do you think it's safe to walk on it? I mean, I can handle the pain, I just don't know what's causing it and I don't want to make it worse. But I'm SOOOOO sick of sitting on my ass doing nothing. I'm used to walking a LOT.

To sum up:
-My foot is NOT swollen or black and blue. There are no visible signs of damage to the foot, nor do I feel anything out of the ordinary when I touch it.
-The pain is not pinpointed to one location. It is sort of diffuse, the top of the ball of my foot, shooting pains.
-The pain started something like 7-8 weeks ago now. I have been keeping off it almost entirely for at least 4 weeks now.
-Most of the time it doesn't hurt, but if I stand or walk for an hour or more, the pain comes back with a vengeance and it's like I never even rested it.
-Anti-inflammatory drugs do help the pain, but I am trying not to take them except at night if I can't sleep, because if I don't feel the pain I'm worried I'll make it worse.

Hm... I'm usually more interested in story than gameplay in games like this, so if it's not super challenging, I actually like that. But I have heard mixed reviews on the ending (please don't spoil!). What I like is so often very different from what other people like, it's hard to guess if this'll be worth purchasing or not... Hmmmm..... Well, there's like 18 days to decide still, so I'll keep thinking it over.