Bay 12 Games Forum

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Originally posted by Fishersalwaysdie:
<STRONG>It would stop you from over doing it.</STRONG>

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If a limiter is necessary on how frequently dwarves can use this ability, it's not going to be something stupid like tripping.

As I originally said, limited use.  That means a cooldown before a dwarf can use it again, which is a natural limiter.

In Dwarf Mode, Sprint would occur automatically.  If a dwarf has chased a mob a certain distance (say, 10 squares) and his Sprint cooldown is ready, he uses it and sprints to his target.  Unlike Martial Trance, Sprint shouldn't pop up as an "status message", since it will happen fairly often.  However it does seem reasonable to let the player know the effect is occurring - so perhaps a visual effect could occur (have the dwarf flash in a certain way.)

I have no clue how often you chase mobs in Adventure mode - or if you chase them at all.  But obviously in that mode you'd have control over when you activate Sprint, it'd have a cooldown before you could use it again.  Having never played Adventure I'm not qualified to say how often it should be usable - if it's even needed at all (it might not be.)

It seems like a limited-use Sprint ability should be used by Dwarves (automatically; similar to how Martial Trance seems to kick in.)  This would be a temporary speed boost to allow a dwarf to catch and attack their target - perhaps causing a 'dazed' effect which slows the target's movement for a period of time.

The main point being that melee units in the game should have a method for quickly closing on their target and keeping within melee range.  I don't mind seeing chasing happen sometimes, but it seems far too frequent that dwarves just chase things around the wilderness for prolonged periods of time.

As a limited-use ability, I imagine this would also improve the tactical depth of Adventure Mode (although I personally haven't tried that mode yet to know how combat plays out.)

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Originally posted by schm0:
<STRONG>Perhaps just have them act similarly to the existing branches of ore, but instead ore, you have a cavern (empty space). That would be a bit more realistic, as there are unexplored caverns out there in the world that were only discovered once miners dug into the cave itself (which was closed off from the world for thousands of years) or divers surfaced in previously unexplored reaches of underground aquifers.[ August 03, 2007: Message edited by: schm0 ]</STRONG>

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Yeah, tombhart was kind of mistaken by assuming this would be difficult.  The existing code which places ore veins could easily be adapted to create empty spaces (caverns) and it wouldn't be too much harder to add monsters to those spaces (if appropriate; obviously if you find a small hollowed out room in the middle of a mountain it'll be unlikely to find anything living there - but if it's connected to the river, or includes a lake of its own, then it's plausible to put some unusual creatures in there).   Not to mention the possibility for entire communities living down there (a drow-like race, for instance.)

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Originally posted by Tormy:
<STRONG>Nothing would be complex and nightmarish with a decent UI.
The OP's idea is very good actually.

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But this idea adds complexity without really making the gameplay deeper.  That's bad.

You have to admit it'd be a better fix to improve the situation with labor groups which utilize a group AI of some sort to handle which dwarf does which task.  This would almost totally reduce the need for prioritizing individual tasks manually.

I suppose when it comes right down to it I'm agreeing with you:  this complexity could be addressed by better UI.  Better UI in the form of Labor Groups which include improved group AI to auto-prioritize tasks.

After his last post I realize that what he's asking for could probably happen fairly easily without too much overhead - particularly if a "traffic" system is already in the works.  The game could just automatically flag furniture as orange or red in terms of traffic.

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Originally posted by Haedrian:
<STRONG>However, I don't like the whole substitute either. Lets say you DO get the place working with substitutes, then you finally get enough resources. How do you 'upgrade'? Its already hard enough to change weapons/tools ONCE (lock them in ect...) are you expected to take out buildings as well?</STRONG>

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This is bad rationale.

Clearly your issue is that it's irritating to upgrade dwarves.  Shouldn't we suggest fixing that problem, and not let that limit the ideas that get suggested for the game?

Seems easy enough to have 3 work options for Upgrade Weapon, Tool, and Armor.  When a dwarf gets to these work orders he checks what his current gear is and looks for an upgrade.  If an upgrade is available, he upgrades.  If not, he posts up an error message "No viable upgrade".

Then there would be a mass upgrade order somewhere too.

Alternatively, dwarves could just automatically seek to upgrade their gear (a decision you could disable via standing orders) just as they automatically seek food/drink/bed.  Seems like that kind of thing should be disabled by default in Standing Orders, but you're able to turn it on if you desire.

But clearly this issue is entirely separate from wanting Wood, Stone, and Bone substitutes.

Not sure it's a good idea.

Personally I do agree with the general sentiment that there's too many workshop types.  A large raw number of workshop types doesn't really add to gameplay, but adds a fair amount to complexity (and good game design tends to be about optimizing how much fun gameplay you can squeeze out of a game without increasing its complexity.  A good designer can create deep gameplay without extraneous amounts of complexity.)

The only approach I've thought of that seems viable is upgradeable workshops:
1. There is no mechanics workshop.
2. Your Mason's Workshop can be upgraded, and at level 2 it has all of the mechanic tasks available.

I'm not convinced this method would improve things enough to be worth doing, but I certainly feel something could/should be done to improve the "unnecessary complexity" stuff in the game which builds up.  Perhaps all the game needs is better in-game help and things will seem less complex by default.