Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - webber

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8
1
Webber, you told us your view of what happened with the fire, how about you tell us what sparked the whole riot and your explanation of the polices behavior.

You mean the whole Maidan protest or Odessa events prior to fire?

2
1) Regular army cannot be used versus protesters, it violates the ton of conventions. And in the middle of Odessa this cannot be concealed. Also it`s "cannon agaist a sparrow".
2) No evidence of pro-Russian people with molotovs.
3) Police is subordinated to government. Odessa governor stated in his FB that "any actions versus terrorists are considered legal". Tymoshenko thanked ultras for "defending Odessa", etc.
1) Sure it can. They just need to call them terrorists or Russian agent and let the tanks move out. Or you know, considering you seem to be saying that all the pro-Russians protestors were peace loving unarmed people, they can just send in the police with a polite note. I mean, unarmed protestors can not resists a police force, or an ultra force for that matter. You can't say that the protestors were both unarmed and managed to defend themselves well enough that they had to use fire.

2) A fire started on the third floor, need a really good aim to throw up there. Anyway, I saw pictures of pro-Russians with Molotov's posted in this thread, and the official position is that part of the fire was accidentally started by the pro-Russian using Molotov's.

3) Does not prove involvement. Merely acknowledgment of their actions. (Which is bad enough, I suppose.)

..

Kiev is one letter shorter, implies no legitimacy at all, is more informative, and swear words are bad things.

Also, none of those is a good argument. I mean, you might start calling them Nazis for the same reasons.


1) Again, it would be military operation in a center of a megapolis. Against like 300 people in tents. What for?

You can't say that the protestors were both unarmed and managed to defend themselves well enough that they had to use fire.
 There was no "defense". There was a massacre.

2) You are using an outdated point of view and probably missed some pieces of evidence I gave earlier. Ultras/Right Sector/red bandages were INSIDE the building too, up to the roof, and could set the fire where they wanted to.

3) Then who? Remnants of Yanukovich loyalists in the police?


It would be kind of strange for me to call them "Kiev" sitting in, erm, Kiev.

Also, why are they not nazis? I mean, like... promoting own nation over others, willing to kill other people for that and actually doing so, supporting the actions of the Nazi Germany... Where is the difference? Am I missing some especial English meaning of "nazi" word or something?

3
Webber, your description even if it is as true as it can be, still does not make it a junta. If that is a junta then pretty much every democracy started out as a junta and maybe still is :P

You should learn what big words mean before using them, didn't your mother teach you that?

...Also this nickname stuck because
1) it`s shorter than any other variant to describe the current government without the using word "government", which would imply legality
2) you can only change one letter to get a Russian swear word which also describes the current "government" pretty well.

4
1) is not only CE for being CE's sake, it's not even the most efficient way to do it, since they are using actual army by now, so it's not like they couldn't just send some troops there
2) ...how would that work? Reverse psychology? 'NOTHING TO SEE HERE, ONLY OUR DAILY MURDERIN''
3) Seeing as there is proof of actual separatists armed with actual weapons actually shooting down an actual helicopter, and I feel like I forgot an actual somewhere, this again looks needlessly convoluted and CE for CE's sake.

1) Erm, you possibly got something wrong. I mean an actual tent camp on the street, you know, to show the protest and such.
2) As I said, things probably went out of control... or I underestimate our Junta.
3) ...And I`m yet to see actual Russian agents captured. Not random people SBU is showing us on a daily basis.
1) Still, why would they do that. They have gas and army and watercannons and all dem other methods to clear it up. Having the people do it only reinforces the idea that Eastern Ukraine is a lawless area out of control, waiting for a "Peace" mission stepping in.
2) Well, actually the fire might have caused less backlash than having the camp beat up by pro-Ukrainians. I mean, now it's a tragedy with no clear perpetrator (both sides were using molotovs)
3) I've yet to see actual evidence that the government is behind this. I mean, you only "evidence" is that the police chief talked to someone involved with Maidan.

1) Regular army cannot be used versus protesters, it violates the ton of conventions. And in the middle of Odessa this cannot be concealed. Also it`s "cannon agaist a sparrow".
2) No evidence of pro-Russian people with molotovs.
3) Police is subordinated to government. Odessa governor stated in his FB that "any actions versus terrorists are considered legal". Tymoshenko thanked ultras for "defending Odessa", etc.


Webber, please explain to me how the new Ukrainian government is a junta?
From fascists to a junta, what's next?
Because they are close to actual junta - took the power by force, ruled by the council of leaders, each with own manpower, and such.

5
1) is not only CE for being CE's sake, it's not even the most efficient way to do it, since they are using actual army by now, so it's not like they couldn't just send some troops there
2) ...how would that work? Reverse psychology? 'NOTHING TO SEE HERE, ONLY OUR DAILY MURDERIN''
3) Seeing as there is proof of actual separatists armed with actual weapons actually shooting down an actual helicopter, and I feel like I forgot an actual somewhere, this again looks needlessly convoluted and CE for CE's sake.

1) Erm, you possibly got something wrong. I mean an actual tent camp on the street, you know, to show the protest and such.
2) As I said, things probably went out of control... or I underestimate our Junta.
3) ...And I`m yet to see actual Russian agents captured. Not random people SBU is showing us on a daily basis.

Addendum: BTW, if you have some time, try to apply "chaotic evil" logic to official version of February events. Like "dispelling the croud with snipers", "beating children on streets", "torturing protesters than letting them free alive"...

6
I have a question:

Wouldn't that be literally THE stupidest thing anyone interested in stabilizing the situation could do? What possible motive would Kiev have to stage this stuff?

Possible goals:
1) Liqudation of anti-maidan camp in Odessa
2) Distraction of public attention from the East
3) Another brick in "Russians invading our cities, shooting our people" propaghanda wall.

In all cases, it looks like things went out of control.

OR there is a theory that they are purposely choosing stupidest/bloodiest moves to provoke Russia into military operation, but I hope this is too crazy even for them. I hope.


Yup, why would Kiev use a false flag operate to convince their own side to murder a good 30 people?

I mean, the point of these false flag operations is to make it seem like the enemy attacked you, giving you the moral higher ground. Not to make it seem like you're the bad guys.
Ahem, but the succeeded. Looks like half of the country here already believes in "russian agents shooting peaceful march".

7
Webber, doesn't the idea that they were pro-Russian but that some members of the police were working with them or at least passively supporting hold just as much water as the case you are trying to lay out here?

The Odessa police don't seem competent enough or disciplined enough, not even close, to pull off the level of conspiracy you are alleging here, and what does it even gain them?

1) Red bandages are not pro-Russian. They weared pro-Russian symbolics while attacking the ultras to turn the latter agains actual pro-Russians camp on Kulikovo field.
2) The Odessa police is competent enough to execute a simple order: "ignore all actions of guys wearing red marks". For sure they are not masterminds, just serving their new masters from Kiev.
By the way, some guys there still have honor. One riot police unit defiantly dropped their shields and left their designated fasting next day.

9
Thank you, webber. Your post was very educational.

I waited for so long to have a proof that 9/11 truthers are not an uniquely American phenomenon.

Provide a counter-evidence. Or wait for the second post.



Including the ones that say Neo-Hitler (and I don't mean Russia, Ukraine, the West or Obama) is behind it all?  I'm not trying to insult you (apologies if I did though), my point is that there is lots of false stuff out there, including the conspiracy theory article you posted.

As for your people getting beaten up etc, the same happened to Ukranians too.

Plot twist: I am Ukrainian. Partly.
Though, for Bandera supporters I am an unclean half-blood etc.,etc.

More evidence will be posted soon.

Webber... Is he the same guy who tried to prove that snipers at Maydan  were hired by the opposition  to blame Yanukovitch?

You sure do remember me well, considering that sweet letter you sent me then. By the way, want me to cite your "get rid of them" thing again? You erased the post, but I`m pretty sure that the forum engine keeps all edited versions and therefore you cannot blame me for "forging" it.

10
How the thugs killed Odessa inhabitants in the Trade Unions House - the details of bloody scenario

Pictures of burned people inside. Just usual  naz fasc European values of the new, free Ukraine.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sooo, the armed russian provocateurs and the people atop the building were NATO false-flag ops, who amused themselves by killing people federalist supporters & pregnant women inside the flaming building for kicks...
Right.

Replace NATO with "Right sector" and you are like 100% close.

Quote
So you have a different source for this?
Sh*tloads. The whole Youtube. I`m making a second post right now.

11
@Webber: Your post alone shows that you are heavily biased, and so is the article. It kind of reads like propoganda rather than news.

Oh yeah? My people were shot, beaten to death, burned alive just for their nationality, and it was declared legal by our so-called government, and ignored by "totally independent" western media. What are you expecting, a polite shrug?

12
How the thugs killed Odessa inhabitants in the Trade Unions House - the details of bloody scenario

Pictures of burned people inside. Just usual  naz fasc European values of the new, free Ukraine.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

13
General Discussion / Re: Russian intervention in Ukraine
« on: March 01, 2014, 06:07:22 am »
Decent analysis of the recent shootout. Has some hardly provable suggestions at the end, though.
Not recommended for children or sensitive people.


14
General Discussion / Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« on: February 20, 2014, 05:42:21 pm »
They could just be wearing something reflective so that if they get a hard enough knock to the head they are still highly visible in their otherwise black outfits and hopefully somebody will get them some medical attention...

Police officers are not supposed to be left for dead with only hope for random medic. Also from one of the videos I posted earlier we can see what kind of medical attention police can get from protesters.
Also the armbands make the wearer an easier targer. It would be just silly to wear them for police officers who know that protesters have weapons, but it makes a lot of sense if they are worn by provocateurs to recognize allies at distance, since they aren`t going to fight anyone who is armed.

15
General Discussion / Re: Uprising in Ukraine
« on: February 20, 2014, 05:33:55 pm »
Instruction given by whom, to who? To police? Then it's government giving it. If not - why the hell did NOBODY catch on, in government or the police?

To yellow-stripes guys, by whoever controls them. But as I said before, opposition does benefit from their actions and government does not.
To catch on what? On the time of morning shootout regular police still wasn`t allowed to use lethal force and didn`t have the weapons. Any actions against the shooters were impossible.

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8