Bay 12 Games Forum

833 units? As in 119 complete tiles of water?

Nope, not that units. IIRC results of my another experiment, contents of a minecart make 2/7 water in one tile when being dumped.

Campfire?

How old is your PC? Maybe it`s time to oil the fan bearing - or just replace the whole fan?
Also, check for hanging wires near the fan. They also can make some strange sounds when they touch the rotating fan, and you can spend ages until you realise what the hell was that.

Dude, it's a plan. Every military in the world got plan against everything. When you've got a massive totalitarian state taking over half of Europe, it's normal to plan for war against that state.

Excuse me. This plan was developed when Soviet Union and Great Britain were still fighting fascism together. And Soviets had a huge part of their country literally destroyed, all male population capable of fighting in army and women and children working on factories and plowing the fields. How could British generals consider Soviet government maniacs saying "men, forget the ruined country, we order you to attack our allies now" and Soviet people mindless slaves saying "OK, will be done"? It is clearly a traitorous, offensive plan.

Quote from: webber on October 24, 2011, 09:06:25 am

In fact, I just like depersonalized style of discussion, which was completely broken when some people started to speak for their countries.

Like... You?

Please quote me speaking for my country. What I say is my own opinion, and (I hope) this opinion is not affected by any government`s propaganda.

You felt free to lump all of America in one big lump

I can perfectly make a difference between American people and American government, and the government`s actions in some particular cases are actually what I do not like.

...
a drastic demonstration of a change of power
...
we demonstrated that the fight was a total futal effort, and that we could kill them ALL without a single further American death

My congratulations, again. What your ancestors did is definitely a terroristic act. Useless, by the way, because nation sending untrained boys to crash airplanes into our ships didn`t really care about death of its citizens. It only would have given them more fanaticism for another 2-3 years of war. And what really made Japan to surrender was Soviet Union entering the war and immediately beating the shit out of Kwantung Army, capturing ~600 000 of war prisoners.

you got no clue

Japanese sources. Soviet sources. American. German. Mostly memoirs, sometimes historical analysis. The key is to estimate possible level of author`s bias. The knowledge is everywhere, but it is useless if your mind is locked in a cage of false righteousness.

By the way, what are your sources? Where do you get your information?

Germany, bro?

Nope.  Don`t rely on username, it has no sense.

The fucking hell? You think we dropped nukes on Japan and planned on invading Japan "just because their ideology was different". Learn some god damn history.

Dropshot operation. Learn some god damn history.

...
This was people, mostly Libyans asking NATO to intervene.

They were asking UN. NATO just formed a coordination and command body for a coalition of 19 countries which had some interests in Libya.
By the way, IIRC Gadaffi even wrote the letter to Obama saying something like "Son, let`s fight terrorism together!" and generally was ready for the negotiations. Some more agressive diplomacy would have been enough to topple the regime without a drop of blood hitting the ground, but instead of this NATO chose the violent way again. If I use logic of my opponents, I can say NATO is responsible for every death in this war, not only for collateral civilian losses.
Russia didn`t give veto because Russian president is a childish idiot. Russian ambassador in Libya called him "traitor" when the resolution hadn`t been vetoed.

...

You do it when you pick those innocents over the lives the targets would have taken out in the collateral damage
There are some international standarts for this. You should (re)read UN regulations about combatants and non-combatants. There is a difference between "our bomb will with 90% probability hit the target, continue" and "our bomb will with 10% probability kill a civilian, let`s cancel this operation and try diplomacy" approaches.

How many US soldiers should die to avoid a single civilian casualty
1:1, everywhere. This means that you should choose the lesser losses. In case of equal possible losses situation (lose one soldier or one civilian) the soldier is sacrificed, because it`s his job to die for other people.

We are now unsuitable in reducing the efforts of the drug cartels to increase their profits
Drug cartels are mostly your internal problem, and your people delegate the state the right to stop them.
Nobody delegated you the right to solve the world`s problems.
Fun fact: since US entered Afghanistan, production of opiates in this country is only increasing. Police? Cartels? Absolutely laughable, you say?

Okay, we are now unsuitable in telling governments they are not allowed to wholesale slaughter their citizens
You are perfectly suitable for telling. But usually you just appear and bomb said government with half of the country and citizens.

So do we hold our fire until we have magic bullets that stop everyone without a single person dying?
Yes. If you spend less money on constant wars, this "magic bullets" will not sound like a fairytale very soon. As I said, you do have technological potential.

As for other "world police" stuff - how can you explain that all EVIL DICTATORSHIPS you are fighting are sitting on oil deposits? And other  dictatorships who support America exist for decades, executeing, raping, and slaughtering vast amounts of their own citizens like any other dictatorship?

I can't help but note that you haven't expressed what country has your support.
Every country that does not start wars.

Americans were dragged kicking and screaming into this role from World War 2
I`d better not mention WW2, because during it you have set a record in your "minor collateral damage".
And like Il Palazzo mentioned, I`d like to hear your version of history.

No other country could do it
A lot can, when acting together. This is what UN exists for.

no matter how much I dislike little idiots out there screaming how badly they hate us, and trying to kill my children because my nation is good at it's job
You are distinguishing your people from other peoples again, also showing some signs of xenophobia. Not an attack, just stating the fact.

Edit: kind of missed the last two posts.

It was America's policy entering the war to finish it and go home, leaving Europe to the Europeans.
Actually you just started to supply Soviet Union after they stopped German war machine near Moscow. And showed up in Europe when it was clear that the Reich was done, to grab some of its legacy - technologies, specialists etc.

It`s pretty much clear that you sincerelly believe what your education and mass-media tell you. I cannot help.

You're still talking about NATO there? 'Cause it makes no sense to me. :p

Yes. Though the part about "making you guilty" was inspired by the last two pages of this thread.

To Kogan Loloklam and his supporters: you are postulating the doctrine that:

1) there are no innocent civilians;
2) the people of the country are always responsible for government actions;
3) collateral losses are justified by the great purpose.

Congratulations, you are officially supporting terrorism.