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211
Current Progress (compared to last turn):
    Naval Warfare:   62.5%    (+ 0%)
    Land Warfare:    50%       (+ 0%)


Current issues:
a) Naval disadvantage.
b) Being pushed back on the western islands
c) While we have stopped them advancing on the plains, we're not able to advance ourselves.
d) In the swamps, we're still stalemated.

There are a few things we can do: We've been told that we need better artillery. This'd help us with c) and b), and probably a). What we can do is revise the artillery to use something other than solid shells; that is canister, spherical case, high-explosive and explosive-filled armour-piercing.
We can get camouflaged uniforms. Those'd help us (probably) with c) and d).
We can design a new ship. This'd help us with a) and b), and with the other islands.

Now, we have two revisions and one design for this turn. Ideally, I'd like to design a new ship, revise the artillery shells and revise our uniforms to use camouflage.

evilcherry: Is camouflaging our uniform a design or a revision action? How about using drab colours (Feldgrau or Khaki)?

212
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Arms Race Aurora 4x NMC IC Thread
« on: July 11, 2016, 01:46:37 am »
Two questions:
1) What are our current shipyards?
2) What are our current techs? Since you mentioned Ion engines being bad, I assume we're at Magneto-Plasma or even ICF? Speaking of which, scientists and expertises would be nice to know, too.

213
Hi I just got an account on this site because of how interesting this game looks so is it okay if I join in and I don't know throw a few ideas out.
Welcome on board!

Well mildmannered depending on the circumstances next turn perhaps we could work on an equivalent of the Ford 3-ton tank...um am I allowed to post links I'm still getting used to the idea of posting on a forum and it might help me get the point across. -Edit-                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Well here's the vehicle I'm talking about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_3-Ton_M1918
That's a very good point - I had assumed that we'd need a stronger motor for tanks but, as it turns out, the Ford 3-tonner ran on two 20hp engines, and the Renault FT (which we might use as another orientation, since it's arguably the first "modern" tank) on a 32hp engine. We have a light, awesome, 55hp engine.

214
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I mean, heavy grenades have a few issues, but yes.
Quite so. Our mortar rounds should be about four kilos, while the grenades are less than one. That makes throwing much more difficult.

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A thing I was remined of. Zeppelins existed. They have their flaws, but they are a mobile weapons platform. Direct fire artillery with HE might well counter it very effectively, but they did indeed exist at one point in time. I don't know if the enemy will happen upon this realization and attempt to implement it, but it could be something that they attempt.
Or, indeed, incendiary shells. Both works.

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We personally shouldn't invest resources into development of zeppelins, because we are honestly in a much better position to do airplanes, what with that super light super efficient engine of ours, but I felt the urge to mention their existence.
Agreed. I'd like to try for an aircraft design next turn. Hm, we might need to build an airfield first, though.

Design:
- Radio-Set, Man-portable
- Mule Truck
- Camouflage uniforms
- Infantry equipment
- Frag Grenade
- Sea Mine
- Phosphorus, White
- Mortar Shells

Industrial
- Training program
- Truck factory
- General-purpose factory
- Artillery factory


So, I've been thinking about the engineering assignments for things we seem to be in agreement about. I have not managed to assign enough people to infantry equipment; we could assign the two newbies from the radio set and mule truck, though.
Thoughts?
Also, we could produce an artillery factory instead of a General Purpose factory: We currently have three general purpose lines assigned to artillery. By producing an artillery factory with 3x300 production lines, we can both increase our artillery production slightly (by assigning stuff to that instead of the current 250pp lines) and free the GP lines for other stuff.

- Radio-Set, Man-Portable (3B1N)
    1 basic naval engineer
    2x Basic Engineer
    1x Newbie

- Mule Truck (4B1N1G)
    1 basic armor engineer
    3x Basic Engineer
    1x Newbie
    1 good engineer


- Camouflage Uniforms (1B1N)
    1x Basic Engineer
    1x Newbie

- Grenade (1B1U, 1xS)
    1 basic munitions engineer
    1 amazingly talented but untrained firearms engineer

- Mortar Rounds (1U, 2B, 1xS)
    1 untrained munitions engineer
    2 talented basic firearms engineers

- Training Program (3B2N)
    2x Basic Engineer
    1 basic firearms engineers
    2x Newbie

- Truck Factory: 1x 300pp engine line, 3x 300pp vehicle line (1U1B2N, 1xS)
    1 untrained architect
    1 basic engineers
    2x Newbie


- General Purpose Factory (2B2N)
    2x Basic Engineer
    2x Newbie
   

And the production proposal again:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

215
Ah, so I did loose track of a zero then.
Phew.
That means we're actually making progress producing the new rifles.

* I would definitely like to second grenades (how could we forget something so basic?).
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Proposal: Fragmentation Grenade Pattern 808
This is a simple, egg-shaped grenade. It consists of a four-second fuse, which is initialized by releasing a safety lever (which itself is secured by a pullable ring). The body is cast iron, and is intended to splinter during detonation. It is filled with smokeless powder. There is a small threading on the bottom of the grenade, allowing it to accept a stick to throw it further. This increases the grenade's weight from 3/4kg to one kg.

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* Some kind of cheap sea-mine would be useful, but too complicated to make reliable with our tech. Some land mines would be nice though...
Would it really? Hm.
Looking at history, there are several mines which have been deployed during the first world war. Mostly contact mines, but still.
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Proposal: Sea Mine Pattern 808
This is a 40cm-diameter sea mine. It is cast iron, and contains the same charge as our torpedoes (50kg). It consists of the body, contact detonators, and an anchor cable of 75m length. It is intended to be thrown overboard with the anchor set to according the current depth. It is then deployed, remaining a few meters under water.
Due to using the same diameter as our torpedoes while being lighter and shorter, it should be possible to carry two or three of the sea mines for every torpedo, and deploy them using the torpedo tubes.

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Here are a few Mule based proposals:
- snip -
The Rhino could also be useful to build air fields. I'd leave both of the designs for next turn (to make sure the Mule turns out its absolute best), but - unless Aseaheru tells us it'd not be for us to worry about - I can see us using these designs. Assuming, of course, that we end up with a sufficiently good Mule.

216
Well, most of the time dead soldiers guns cant be reused, and then guns sometimes get destroyed when a soldier survives. Which mostly happens during retreats.
Just to clarify:
In 805, we had a total of 33,905 Pattern 782 rifles. We haven't produced any, and now have 3,270 rifles left. This means we lost 30,635 rifles (over 90%) during the last two turns, for about 15,000 per turn. To keep up with losses, we'd need 7,500pp assigned to producing Pattern 782 (or 9,000 to produce an equivalent number of Revolving Rifles).
(In comparison, we had 4500 Revolving Rifles in 805, produced a total of 3700 in the last two turns [stocks without losses: 8200] and lost 3000 during the last two turns [37%]. To keep up with this, we require 2,500pp assigned to the rifle.)

Actually, as a more important/less invention-heavy thing, grenades. Grenades are crazy effective in trench fighting, and in WW1 there were assault troops armed with nothing but a bag of grenades. Also seems like a fairly simple thing to develop.
Good idea!

Artillery wise, I'm not really thinking of anything. I suppose if they manage to get out some sort of light bomber, they could try to make surgical or saturation strikes to clear out our guns.
I'm fairly certain that, whatever bomber they make, their payload will probably be too light to make a difference, not to mention it (probably) being shot down by HMGs.

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At sea, the torpedo system, if provided enough launchers, might be able to do something I suppose. The Swordfish would have a similar hypothetical vulnerability to light bombers. If they decided to give up on deploying their own ships, they could try to overflow the sea with depth charges so that our ships would be unable to get close enough.
By depth charges, do you mean mines?

217
We have several 250pp factories on loan. 500pp is enough to get us 10,000 helmets. If every longarm in equipment represents 1 soldier, that leaves 1,400 helmets left to distribute, which should be enough for the rest of our troops I should hope. So for minimal investment, we can have all of our soldiers wearing helmets yesterday.
I have assigned a 550pp total to them. That should give us 11k per turn. Be advised, though, that it's possible we actually have about 40,000 soldiers. See below.

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@Swordfish: That's basically what I was thinking, only with the addition of seeing if we can resolve the slower turning without it being especially expensive. If that is possible, then after the results from this design turn, we can start refitting our older model Swordfish into radio equipped, harder hitting, but just as able models. So a direct upgrade in all aspects.
Agreed. Until then, I'd produce the B model.

Just spitballing here, but if we were worried about smaller vessels/hypothetical future aircraft, welding some of our HMGs' tripods to the deck rails of the Swordfish should be both extremely easy and fairly effective.
Definitely. That's why the Swordfish B already allows us to mount up to six of them  :)
I'd still like to design a 20mm or 40mm fast-firing cannon this turn, if we've got the space and time.

The current proposal list:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For now, here's a preliminary

@Aseaheru: The stocks of 805 list about 33k Pattern 782 rifles, while the last turn lists only 3k. Did you drop a digit somewhere?


A first production proposal, mostly reorganizing things to keep as many General lines as possible open:
    On-Site factory complex
        - General (300pp): Torpedo (18.75 launchers/turn)
        - General (300pp): Jupiter Pattern 803 Automatic Pistol (600/turn)
        - General (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (30/turn)
        - General (300pp): Helmet (6000/turn)
        - Small-Arms (600pp): M1 HMG (120/turn)

    On-Site Artillery Complex
        - Artillery (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (30/turn)
        - Artillery (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (30/turn)
        - Artillery (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (30/turn)

    Off-site (dispersed)
        - 2x General (250pp): 80mm mortar (total 200/turn)
        - 1x General (250pp): Helmet (5000/turn)
        - General (250pp): Pattern 803 Trench Broom (~180/turn)
        - 3x Small-arms (300pp): Revolving Rifle (total 1500/turn)
        - 1x Small-arms (300pp): M1 HMG (60/turn)

    On-site Naval
        - Dockyard (300t): Swordfish B TBD: 1.3/turn
        - Dockyard (300t): Swordfish B TBD: 1.3/turn
   
    Off-site Naval
        - Dockyard (300t): Swordfish B TBD: 1.3/turn


Produces:
    75mm Pattern 806 Field Gun Ratio: 120/turn
    M1 Pattern 806 HMG: 180/turn +5/turn
    Swordfish B TBD: 4/turn +1.3/turn, changed to B model
    Revolving Rifle: 1500/turn +250/turn
    Trench Broom: ~180/turn
    Torpedo: 18.75 launchers/turn
    Jupiter Pattern 803 Automatic Pistol: 600/turn
    Helmet: 11,000/turn +11,000/turn
    80mm mortar: 200/turn +200/turn

Alternatively, we can drop one of the helmet lines and produce an additional hundred mortars per turn.

218
So, turn.

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Helmet
Quite well-done, and it's extremely cheap at .05pp each - meaning a single 300pp production line can produce 6000 per turn.

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Shells
Also well-done. Not having smoke (and no explosive-filled AP) is a bit of a disappointment, but the rest is really nice. Making it cheaper is just the icing on the cake.

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Gasoline engine
Well. That happened. Holy crap. I'm not sure what I like more - 55hp in an extremely light package, or 1pp (!) each. Or the extreme acceptance of fuel. Where they build large trucks, we can probably afford to spam smaller ones.

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Mortar
Ammo - again.
Aside from that, it's really, really nice. Weight isn't really an issue - I assumed it'd travel in three parts anyway. And the accuracy seems extremely nice during trench combat.

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Swordfish B
Well, the turret turning slower was to be expected. The only question is if it's too slow - while they'll probably no longer be able to manoeuvre extremely and fire, they have the ability to attack using their main guns.
@Aseaheru: How expensive is refitting a Swordfish into a Swordfish B?


----------

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Edit: The reaction:  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Yes.

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So the two areas I see as necessary redesign are Pattern of 807 80mmM shells and the Swordfish Type B. Granted, the Swordfish is operating unopposed at the moment, but we don't want to leave gaps in it.
Agreed on the mortar shells. I'm having second thoughts on upgrading the Swordfish, though - I'd rather wait another turn and roll it in with radio upgrades and possibly small-arms upgrades.

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So we set about to make an electric motor and ended up with a gasoline fueled efficient beyond belief motor.
Actually, the motor was planned to be gasoline-fueled.

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Relisting things that have been suggested for (with some expansions for specific aspects of the end design) this design phase:
Actually, I believe most of those components are (luckily) subsumed into others, and it'll look more like this:
  Radio:
    Portable radio set
    Encoder/Decoder
    Radio Tower
  Truck:
    Chassis/Axle/Wheels, etc
  Train:
    No clue either.

------------

Rumours:

While their main rifle is probably better than ours, combat isn't really decided by rifles. Besides, we've got the Trench Broom (which seems to work out extremely nicely) for close combat.
Our machine gun seems better, as do our pistols (easy, looking at their design). Their artillery has a longer range and higher throw weight, but ours is more accurate and can probably fire faster.
The body armour's not really an issue - it's shrapnel protection at most, for a high weight.
Their truck, on the other hand, is interesting. While it is higher-powered and has a powerful engine, I'm convinced our engine is far superior. At slightly over half the power, it's also far lighter, and it's extremely cheap.

As for the ship they want to design... they probably want to design a gun-equipped ship (since torpedoes won't be able to reliably catch the Swordfish), which is fairly manoeuvrable (to avoid torpedoes) and able to withstand the armament we have demonstrated, either through range or armour.
Therefore, my prediction would be a 600-1000t ship mounting two or three of their field guns, a bit of armour, and a few smaller-calibre guns.
In my opinion, there's a nice counter for that, and that's what we already did: Mounting the Ratio onto the Swordfish. We're superior in direct-fire accuracy (which is what counts in this engagement), they can't both armour against it and stay manoeuvrable, and we can mass them.

-------------

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That engine tho. Diesel powered, almost double what we just made in HP, and weighs as much as an adult male giraffe.
Actually, the truck appears to be 2.5t, not the engine.

-------------

Now, for things I definitely, absolutely, want to do this turn:
- Radio
- Truck
- Truck factory
- Infantry equipment

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Radio Set, man-portable
This radio set consists of a total of four chests/backpacks (with straps to to transport them on the back) in the man-portable variant.
Two chests contain the actual radio, and have to be linked to transmit and receive. One chest contains a battery and a hand-powered generator for recharging the battery on longer operations. The fourth chest contains a multi-part pole, which can be raised to increase the range of the radio through a longer (and higher) antenna.
In a fixed role (with electricity available through an engine or the electrical net, for example), only three of the chests are needed. If the antenna is fixedly mounted, only the two radio itself is needed.
Range should be about 20-30km with extended antenna, up to ten km without. It uses morse code for communications.
This is inspired by the US pack set.

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"Mule" Truck
The Mule Truck mounts two Pattern 807 Gasoline engine, one for the front and one for the rear wheels. They are used together when carrying load, but can be disengaged if one is defect or the truck is travelling empty. It also mounts a towing attachment for towing field guns.
In an attempt to reduce cost, only the critical parts are made of steel, with the cabin and loading area made of wood. The target weight of the truck is 2-2.5 tons, with a maximum targeted load of four tons.

Infantry equipment would be a camouflaged uniform, a standardized mess kit, and a shovel. @Aseaheru: Would that be one action?


Questions for Aseaheru:
- How expensive is refitting a Swordfish into a Swordfish B?
- Would a camouflaged uniform, a standardized mess kit and a new shovel be one action?

219
Most of what you said meshes well with my priorities. A few more comments:
We seem to be doing well on the weaponry front at the moment. If the results from this past design turn don't require us to do too much back tracking, we could be in a position to use most of our engineers to work on developing infrastructure and logistics this next turn.
This is a good idea, yes. Several new factory lines would be nice. On the other hand, we could also use them to design a few more things that are useful - radio, for example, or a first prototype plane.

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If such is the case, I'm thinking another 4x300pp line of factories speced for truck generation (after we finish designing the truck as we currently only have the engine) and another line of 4x300pp for either general use or throwing more of a specifc weapon out there (if we push our artillery and ammunition production further it could push our current advantage there to greater heights) would work out quite well for resolving our deployment issues.
Definitely, although the truck factory is going to need production lines for engines and for the trucks themselves.

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If we can get a jump start on radios (emitters, receivers, encoders, decoders, and possibly towers that also do the previous, though that might need to wait a few turns for development. Morse code works fine for now as any upgrade is good, though vocals would be nice eventually.), that would allow for a great deal of logistical progress and coordination.
I agree. They would allow an independence of field telephones, allow actual coordination between artillery and troops on a level better than "We'll begin firing at 11:00, and stop firing two hours later", allow updates on gains to filter back to HQ to dispatch reserves, and much more. On the naval side, upgrading the Swordfish with radios means they can actually scout.
Also, I'm unsure about how Aseaheru will handle encryption/decryption - possibly establishing a department for that is enough.

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Once we have that sorted, trains would be a decent idea for instate redeployment and distribution, but I have a feeling that we'll use up most of our engineers working on the above.
I am not sure whether that's handled outside of our scope. Aseaheru?

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Or we could also work on the engineer academy this upcoming turn in exchange for waiting on one of the previous suggestions. Getting that jump started would also allow for later things to progress much more smoothly.
Agreed. We'll have to see how the turn turns out.

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Edit: You may have been joking about building a 45,000t drydock, but another avenue we could pursue is doubling down on our ship production, development, and deployment (a new harbor might be achievable) and completely devastating anything they have in reach of the shore, allowing for backdoor marine deployments to get around the current trench warfare.

Edit2: There are several high value targets within one or two tiles of the coast, including what appears to be a factory. If we're able to strike those then that would provide us a signficant advantage.
Hm. Generally speaking, I'm sceptical of naval landings, since they allow the enemy to mass troops and retain a large logistical advantage. If we manage to keep naval superiority, it's probably worth a try.

220
Proposal: Call the Gatling Cannon the Rotary Cannon. Also, a very nice design and - it being a support weapon - we're fulfilling all of our needs.

Now, what should we revise? As I had already said, I can see three (four) ways to go:
a) Add a single "Breech" cannon to our armed vessels. This is a stopgap measurement, significantly increasing range and firepower of our ships. They still remain the same, though. This is useful since I'm guessing the enemy will do something naval-focused this turn, and we only managed to gain an advantage due to shore-based artillery (imagine them ship-mounted!)

b) Add a bayonet to our rifle. This would give our soldiers a melee advantage, and the ability to repel horse charges by shifting to a square formation. This is useful since it increases our soldiers' ability across the board, and is the safe revision.

c) Revise our cannon ammunition. This would add both a shell, canister round and shrapnel shell. This is useful since it increases the capability of our cannon, giving us another way to avoid massed charges. They also increase our bombardment ability.

d) Revise our shovels. Introduce digging courses and standardized shovels for our soldiers. This is useful since it allows them to use fortifications, making them less vulnerable both to rockets and charges.


Of course, the question is whether d) counts as a revision.
For myself, I'm in favour of c, d, b and a in that order.

221
I don't have the experience or knowledge in regards to design production and this game that some of you have, so I will probably operate on an idea suggestion and voting stasis.
Welcome!
And don't worry about lacking knowledge, it's (mostly) running on real world logic.

Are we able to sit them down for a year for increased efficiency from them later on?
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It might be a decent idea to look into setting up a training program so that we can turn newbies into basic engineers at a decent pace, but we'd almost certainly need to wait until our next batch of engineers to have the personnel to make that worth while.
Very good point. I completely forgot about building an engineering academy.


Now, for the turn:

The war this year has taken a turn for the destructive, with both sides wheeling out modern artillery pieces. For the Republic, their piece is the Pattern 806 "Ratio" field gun, capable of firing at a distance or delivering witheringly accurate fire in a direct fire role. The Monarchy has wheeled out their quick-fire "striker" field gun, lobbing 25lb shells at targets. Of them, the "ratio" is by far the best in direct fire roles, even with the Strikers purpose designed ammunition for the job(a shrapnel shell that turns it into a giant shotgun), while both guns are let down by poor HE performance at range. According to rumors, both sides have been hard at work attempting to correct this deficiency.
Hm. We have the advantage in firepower, but them fielding a modern-ish artillery gun is definitely a problem. From what I see, they probably have a slightly bigger calibre (about 90mm vs our 75mm), which means longer range, slower firing rate and heavier artillery piece. With better HE performance, we'll probably stay competitive.

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In addition to this, Republic shock troops have been attacking trenches at short range with their recently produced pattern 803 Trench Broom(their second try at such a weapon), a rapid fire weapon firing the 10x30mm "special" round and their more prevalent Jupiter pistols. However, these attacks have been largely countered by the rapid deployment of machineguns and infantry via truck(least, when said trucks are not shifting about field guns) while the Republican forces have largely been unable to move up reinforcements to exploit these gaps in the lines.
We need trucks. Or trains. Something something logistics.
On the other hand, the Trench Broom seems to work nicely.

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Likewise, Republican forces have begun producing their own machineguns that have made the Monarchy unable to storm Republican trenches.
Very good.

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At sea, the two initial Republican naval vessels have been joined by two more, both equipped with torpedo launchers (single tubes, one on each side). These have been hammering ports and any ships unlucky enough to find them, and have been noted to be able to hit a single target with their guns while making the extreme maneuvers necessary to get off both tubes. At the same time, what arty has been able to be spared from the front is so thinned out as to be almsot useless.
We're definitely ahead on sea!
I wonder what is happening there, though - it seems as if they decided that investing more resources into the navy would be useless since we share a land border, and tried to counter that by trying to deploy some artillery on the coasts. If so, they seem to pay for it.
With the Swordfish B (mounting our field gun) we may actually be able to shell some  parts of their country, mostly for propaganda value.

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So, to recap: War on land is messy trench warfare with one side equipped with helmets and using trucks to bring up some reinforcements and the other side using deadly direct fire arty(when they can bring it up fast enough) and proto-SMGs. At sea, its a curb stomp for the Republic.
Nice.

222
I'm going to comment on the actual turn later.

    Small-arms factory (3B, 1U, 4xS)
    Expand Drydock production (1U, 1xS)
These are Small-Arms factory, which has four engineers assigned to it: Three basic (3B), one untrained (1U). Four of them (4xS) are also specialized. The Expanded Drydock production has one untrained engineer assigned to it, who is also specialized. I've left those in from my assignment planning.
Specifically, I'd like the following:
Small-Arms Factory:
    1. Expand the 575pp line to 600pp. Small effect, but it eliminates all non-integer numbers from our production.
    2. Build 4x 300pp line factories, distributed over the country. (1U 1B 1N 2xS were able to produce 575pp, so more and better-trained people should be able build that).

Drydock:
    Expand the drydock to be able to produce 500t (i.e. two Swordfish) per year.

For the drydock: If I understood you correctly, the drydock's production numbers are simply tons per year, i.e. if we build a battleship dock of 45,000t, we'd be able to produce 180 Swordfishes per year with it. It might be a good idea to separate it into maximum tonnage and tons per year.

223
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Arms Race - Aurora 4x Edition
« on: July 01, 2016, 04:04:59 pm »
This sounds interesting. I'd be willing to play both, but would slightly prefer the New Mars Conglomerate. I've played Aurora for a bit (probably north of five hundred hours), although that's been before v7.00. Correspondingly, maybe 8?

224
Current Progress (compared to last turn):
    Naval Warfare:   62.5%    (+ 6.25%)
    Land Warfare:    50%       (+ 0%)

Now, I don't know what the soldier-count issues are - Nirur Torir's suggestion that they invented camo does sound probable.
Our current main (panic) issue are the plains - massed infantry and cavalry attacks sound difficult. What can we do about that?
Barbed wire (generally fortifications) are one way to go about that. The other one, as suggested, are rapid-fire defensive weapons, i.e. machine guns. However, as Nirur Torir already said, they require many innovations.

How about we try to design Gatling Guns, i.e. cartridge-using, multiple-barrel rapid-fire weapons? They should be able to stop cavalry charges. Depending on how that works out, we could then revise our shells (and add canister rounds, another advantage against cavalry charges), add bayonets to our rifles or mount a single cannon onto our ships.

225
For spy round I propose we find out the range on the rice-eaters new rockets, since those are currently fucking us up.

I agree
Seconded, too.

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Also the cannon balls filled with oil could be use for naval warfare, if we can set their junks on fire we'll wipe out their naval forces vastly faster due to the fact that it's much harder to repair a burnt ship then one that just has holes in it.
Here too, I'd recommend explosive shells which - historically - served to both ignite and demolish wooden ships and caused their obsolescence.

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