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Messages - vjek

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1441
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: World Gen Flux Stone Layers
« on: June 08, 2012, 11:50:28 am »
It is finding flux.  It is there.  You just have to press the key to show it.   :D
It is finding the flux, but even in a single-biome embark it may not show it. Just last night I had this issue: I found a single-biome 4x3 embark but it didn't list flux on the screen, but I had flux set to "yes."

If you can reproduce this, I'd very much like to see the worldgen and embark. I've tried, with great attention to detail, to reproduce exactly what you're describing, and failed.  I have never, in any 34.x release, seen the finder fail to find and show flux as expected.  It would be great to reproduce it, if there's a bug with this.

Keep in mind, if you move or resize the embark area after the finder is done, you're not using what the finder found.  Not saying that's what happened, just something to be aware of when trying to control the conditions.

1442
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: World Gen Flux Stone Layers
« on: June 08, 2012, 09:48:05 am »
When I set the mineral setting to 'everywhere' (I don't want to dig around too long for anything) during gen my finder will claim no flux anywhere. But there's always been loads marble when you dig around enough, even had whole layers of chalk near the surface a failed fort or two ago. I don't use the finder to look for flux anymore as there's always been plenty. Don't know why the finder doesn't work.
The finder does work; however, sometimes the map won't list flux on your screen when you're browsing the results.

As I mention above, the finder is always right in those 20 tests and every time I've ever used it before or since. 100% right 100% of the time.  However, multi-biome embarks require you to press F1, F2, F3, F4 to show alternate biomes for the embark area selected.  Only the first biome is shown, which may or may not contain the flux.  One of the others (press F2, F3, F4) will have it.

It is finding flux.  It is there.  You just have to press the key to show it.   :D

1443
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: World Gen Flux Stone Layers
« on: June 07, 2012, 10:41:09 pm »
Because I love quoting myself...

Regarding flux..  I decided to do a little testing, used a worldgen I made in the past day or so, and generated 10 worlds with it.

Testing parameters (using vanilla 34.07):

Worldgen
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

note Mineral Scarcity: 500.  One cavern.  No volcanism, no volcanos.  Mountains and plains only.  Plains were all elevation 100.  All embarks were found on the plains.

Finder Parameters
Embark Dimensions - 4x4
Flux Stone - Yes
Aquifer - No
Shallow Metal - Multiple
Deep Metal - Multiple

Flux is: Calcite, Chalk, Dolomite, Limestone, Marble
10 random worlds with above worldgen, vanilla 34.07, results are..

Marble Y/N      First Stone under soil level(s)
----------      -------------------------------
     Y                 Dolomite
     Y                 Limestone
     Y                 Shale
     Y                 Siltstone
     Y                 Phyllite
     Y                 Claystone
     Y                 Chert
     Y                 Shale
     Y                 Siltstone
     Y                 Siltstone
     Y                 Marble

     
Every single map met the finder criteria, and every single time, finder was correct.  Verified with dfhack 'prospect hell' and 'reveal'.  Every embark had Marble, at minimum.
However, it sometimes did this by combining two biomes to get all the parameters to match.
Biome1 could have Shallow metals
Biome2 could have Deep Metals, and Flux
So when you view it, initially, you think, no flux! But if you press F2, you see flux, and if you embark, flux is there.
Even if it's just Marble, 100% (10/10) of all worlds made with that worldgen, there was flux, and the finder worked exactly as expected.

I'll be happy to do another round of tests if someone has some constructive criticism/suggestions to debunk some of the myths.

I'll be happy to do another round of tests if someone has some constructive criticism/suggestions to debunk some of the myths.
If it's not too much trouble, could you do it in a world with higher volcanism?

Here's the results.  All I changed was Volcanism Minimum: 100 & Volcanism Maximum: 100

Generated 10 random worlds as before, same worldgen except those two parameters changed. (vanilla 34.07)

#      Marble     First Stone
--     ------     -----------
01      Yes        Obsidian
02      Yes        Dacite
03      Yes        Obsidian
04      Yes        Basalt
05      Yes        Dacite
06      Yes        Andesite
07      Yes        Phyllite
08      Yes        Rhyolite
09      Yes        Andesite
10      Yes        Dacite


Finder Parameters
Embark Dimensions - 4x4
Flux Stone - Yes
Aquifer - No
Shallow Metal - Multiple
Deep Metal - Multiple

Every world found at least a dozen embarks (some had several hundred) that matched the finder parameters.  Every embark the finder found had marble. And again, the finder was never wrong, but on some locations, a multi-biome embark was necessary to match all the parameters.

Note:  500 mineral Scarcity. 100 min volcanism. 100 max volcanism. 10/10 worlds found flux (marble) with the embark finder.

I've never seen any similar flux !!Science!! done below 500 mineral scarcity.  It would have to be a seriously wacky formula to go from 100% flux at 500 scarcity to 0% flux at 100 scarcity, with 100 min/max volcanism.

1444
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: So many soap blocks...
« on: June 07, 2012, 08:16:25 pm »
Go into stocks and forbid it.  Forbidden materials won't show up as construction material.

1445
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: food prodution on non natural grounds?
« on: June 07, 2012, 05:16:35 pm »
... otherwise which non grazer animal wields the greatest amount of meat and has reasonable growth/birth rate?

If you give them enough nest boxes, geese, turkeys, and/or pea's will produce so many offspring, you'll quickly be overrun.

Check out the poultry comparison, very helpful.

1446
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Population grows too quickly?
« on: June 06, 2012, 11:06:54 am »
go to the raws and, as mentioned before, remove the tags in the raws from humans and elves too?
Correct!

To get no diplomats/liaisons/caravans from dwarven civs:
Remove [ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN] from [ENTITY:MOUNTAIN] in \raw\objects\entity_default.txt

To get no diplomats/liaisons/caravans from elven civs:
Remove [ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING] from [ENTITY:FOREST] in \raw\objects\entity_default.txt

To get no diplomats/liaisons/caravans from human civs:
Remove [ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER] from [ENTITY:PLAINS] in \raw\objects\entity_default.txt

1447
So I have what may be an interesting problem, or may be impossible, or may just be me being needy. You be the judge.

I'd like to have a fort where I can catch Giant Lions, Giant Tigers and Gigantic Pandas (oh my). That means some sort of Tropical Savanna/Grassland/Shrubland, some sort of Tropical Forest/Shrubland/Swamp and a Temperatre Forest. All high savagery for greatest fun.

(Ideally it'd also have flux, iron, a flat volcano, sand, a brook and a pony, but I'd settle for "metals that don't suck" and leave my perfectionism at the door.)

I haven't had a lot of luck with this, partly because I'm not sure how to search a map for this. So, world gen questions:
  • I want some fairly varied regions next to each other, how much variance should I pump into rain and drainage? Would the mesh be better?
  • When generating for this kind of thing, do you go for many small worlds or one big world? Does that change when you're aiming for a volcano embark?
  • While temperate and tropical biomes coexist? What sort of temperature gradient should I be looking at to make that work?
  • How much mineral scarcity should I aim at before flux stops genning properly?

Any help you can give me here is hugely appreciated. I love looking at the stuff that shows up in this thread. :D

Nothing too bad there except (as always) the volcano.

Try this worldgen a few times, and modify the volcanos value to see if you can get what you want.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
First gen of this world I found a 4x4 site with sand, 155k marble, and 21k limonite, along with 48k tetrahedrite in Untamed Wilds.  It also had 62 gigantic pandas, 21 giant tigers, and 6 giant lions, world-wide.  So, I think a step down the right path.

In answer to your four questions..
1) 3200 if you want the max
2) I go for a 65x65 region.  Volcanos mess with underground layers and aboveground elevations, so they impact smaller worlds more that larger ones.
3) yes.  I went with 50 to 78, but you can certainly reduce the minimum if you're not getting enough temperate.
4) 1000 seems to be fine, for me, but I've also found flux in 10/10 worlds generated with 500 mineral scarcity, in the form of marble.  If you want to use something other than marble, I'd stay above 1000.  But this is an area where the results are far more random than predictable, for many players.

1448
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« on: June 04, 2012, 05:41:03 pm »
... Hmm this "Preset Field Values" seems to be something of a secret!  Only 2 mentions I could find of it on Google, and both of them are people asking what it is and not finding out :P  I assume it's something that lets you draw the terrain you want directly?  May fiddle with that...

Yep, the thing that stumps most people in getting started is two main things (I think):

1) you have to use the mouse, and can click on just about anything.
2) what you're changing is constrained by what you defined in the advanced worldgen values. 

If you set your max elevation to 300, you can't use the PFV tool to paint a mountain with an elevation of 301+.  I was thinking about writing up a tutorial on how to make a "smiley face" world with the PFV tool, so the mountains were the eyes and smile of a happy face, while the rest of the world was grassland or swamp or something.

1449
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« on: June 04, 2012, 04:20:17 pm »
... I typically use a 4x3 or 3x4 embark area.  As for worldgen, I limit to 2 cavern layers, and basically make the caverns and the spaces between them to be 5 z-levels.  What sort of exacting specifications do you recommend for getting good FPS?

I should mention, my system specs are very modest by current standards.  I have a core2duo 3ghz with 4GB of DDR1066 RAM.

I'm going to provide some caveats before I provide this information, because I have some very strong bias. :)  My personal style of play is sort of a lazy/efficient combination with a strong dose of rationalization thrown in.  As such, I tend to work backwards from my goal and see how I can refine it.  What is fun for me is very likely not going to be fun for you, or possibly not anyone else.  Just keep that in mind.

In my case, once I discovered goblin sieges, I wanted very much to see the limits of how large a siege I could withstand.  I've used moats, water systems, magma systems, military, no military, cheats, no cheats, evil biomes, good biomes, savage, not savage, surface, and underground forts.

To that end, I started out with a pocket region, and the default raws, and tried to get as many goblin civs as possible.  Turns out, about 5 is the limit.  They won't build dark fortresses too close to each other.  But then I also found that with the default raws, you only get one goblin civ interacting with your fort.  Even if you have 31 distinct goblin civs, by default, you only will ever have one on the civ screen.

So, I changed that.  Added 5 more goblin civs.  Now I have 6 goblin civs to siege me, alright!  progress!  But, there are an awful lot of other things in the world that I really have no interest in.  I typically breached the caverns and then never gave them a second thought, using the soil layers for tree farms and that was that.  But all I was really using the caverns for was wood.  Forgotten beasts kept showing up, and they just roamed around the caverns dusting, burning, and wandering their way to and fro.  Never needed to go down there, so.. really, no point if I could get the wood elsewhere, right?  So, i axed the caverns and gave dwarves above ground farming.

I tend to stick with 65x65 as a max world size now.  Not everything fits into a pocket region, and some aspects of worldgen need a larger set of regions to really tweak properly.  However, very flat and/or small worlds do have one advantage.  Everyone can reach everyone else, so often I can get 2 goblin civs at war of the 6 i have per world, which is great, that means early sieges right away.

Now, without the caverns, there's none of those annoying animal men, just normal animals.  Fewer things pathing around, fewer things to keep track of (for the game engine).  Faster!  I used to play entirely on deserts or badlands, but had to switch to wastelands to get some above ground trees, as there were no belowground trees now.  In addition, I was using an elevation mesh to get mountains in my maps, just enough for dwarves to start on.  Except, you don't really need to do that.  You can make dwarves start anywhere, in any biome.  One line in the raws, and they will happily live on wasteland.  No more mountains.

Ok, so could I get rid of rivers?  Well, in the past, I was always looking for embarks with rivers and a volcano.  Rivers and a volcano.  Always a river and a volcano.  It was like a sickness!  After generating dozens and dozens of worlds, and searching embarks for hours, and building forts on those sites, the efficiency kicked in again.

One command in dfhack provides a riversource tile and permanent water for an entire fort, regardless of biome.  Done.  Buh bye rivers.  How about volcanos?  Most of my forts have a goblin melter in them, and they need an infinite source of magma.  For the moment, dfhack won't create permanent volcanos, so they're an unfortunate reality for those forts.  However, on many of my forts, which are defended by trap hallways, I only need magma for my forges for convenience.  Again, two commands in dfhack, and the forges are magma powered.  I've done it the "right" way, so I just move past that now and do it the fast way.

I tried necromancer sieges, but the way zombies shrug off magma seems broken to me, so, no more necromancers, although their sieges are VASTLY more entertaining than goblins, as they never run away, which is awesome, especially with automated defenses.  I spend no time on the surface, so removing evil clouds, evil rains, and all the rest of that seemed prudent.  I removed mandates from nobles and artifacts, so now my nobles are extremely friendly, never kill anyone, and I make them truly legendary surroundings as a reward for not acting like petulant children. heheh.

Along the way, I removed elves and humans, diplomats and caravans, and creatures I really don't want to fight.  My worlds have very few if any surviving dwarves, one dwarven civilization (usually dead), dozens of thousands of goblins, and some animals.  That's pretty much it.  I want to fight goblins, and I get to fight goblins.   I set my FPS limit to 500, and I am always at it unless I breach a volcano for automated defenses.  After that, the fluid flow is pretty substantial after a siege, but I'm moving 520 7/7 tiles of magma per cycle of the grand goblin melter, so really, the game is doing a damned fine job, in my opinion, fps-wise.

I also figured out how to paint elevation, volcanism, and other features with the "Preset Field Values" part of the advanced worldgen interface.  That was very educational.  I learned about the temperature ranges for worlds, and frostbite and fat-melting, what the consequences are for adding more civilizations, and the difference between sites and civilizations, and what will inhabit a site versus a civ starting point.  Also learned how to add or remove kobolds, or increase the likelihood of massive rivers, cliffs, waterfalls, and similar features.

Recent features like the refuse stockpiles for rotting away armor, clothing, and so on has also been helpful, FPS wise, and has lessened my reliance on atomsmashing or dfhack:autodump-destroy-here.  I routinely build a magma pit for dropping the dozens of kittens that show up for vermin control, and i desperately hope animal traps will be fixed soon so there will be a reason for large jewels and I can stop taking cats on my embarks.  However, I pit or kill all animals except my cats, and keep it to a maximum of 3 adult cats, and 3 kittens.  Once the kittens are grown, I kill the adults and wait until the next set of kittens is ready.  Toady, if you read this, please make vermin gem traps work so I can stop killing kittens.  :P

I want very happy, very rich, very safe dwarves in long term forts, and I get it all.  You can tailor your worlds and the game (with very easy changes) to suit your playstyle, and it should be faster, in the end.

1450
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« on: June 04, 2012, 01:47:19 pm »
... Wow, nice!  If you don't mind me asking, could I take a look at an uploaded save of one of your forts to see the layout?  I'm always looking to try to see what ways are more FPS efficient.

Sure, I've uploaded one of my recent ones here.

Levels 47 (embark) to 33 (bottom of apartments) is the main area that is always the same.  The other levels vary a bit depending on the purpose of the fort, but that's where the dwarves spend 99% of their time.

It's a primarily vertical design over 13 levels.  Starting at 44 with the stockpiles, then down to the crafting levels, the main dining/living area, then the quarters/rooms.

I should also note, without the volcano breach on that fort, it would be well above 360FPS consistently, with 90 dwarves in it.  I've run the same design with 60, 90, 120, and 160 dwarves with little change in FPS.  Yes, it drops down temporarily if you designate an entire 50x50 area to be engraved, but that's to be expected given the pathfinding requirements.

I've found creating the worldgen to exacting specifications helps tremendously, as does small embark areas.

1451
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack 0.34.10 r1
« on: June 04, 2012, 10:31:43 am »
I would like to know if DFHack will allow the conversion of an entire 'cluster' of stone to another type at once, or just the 16X16? blocks. What i would like to do is change all of a cluster at once from worthless stone to useful stone. Thanks for your assistance folks.

EDIT- When I use changevein, it only changes a chunk of the cluster, not the whole thing. If i use changelayer, it well, changes the layer, and leaves the cluster alone. Am I using the wrong commands to change that entire cluster to something else? Or, is there a different command i need to be using. My ultimate goal is to change orthoclase to say.... kaolinite or rock crystal. Thanks for reading.

Put the cursor on an unchanged portion of the vein, and re-issue the changevein command.  If a vein is on a "block" boundary, you'll have to do it a few times, and move the cursor each time.  The command respects the layer/vein boundary.

1452
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: pressure plates for defence unreliable
« on: June 03, 2012, 08:56:57 am »
The way I got around this problem was to use a water source -> floodgate1 -> pressure plate -> floodgate2 -> fortifications-on-map-edge
bit of dwarven logic.

Then you put the animal-driven-pressure-plate to trigger the first floodgate (it will raise) and the bridge trigger on the water-driven-pressure-plate between the floodgates.  Then it doesn't matter how many times the animal steps on their pressure plate, the bridge will raise exactly once until floodgate1 is closed (no more activity) and floodgate2 is opened.

What conditions you use to determine when floodgate2 should be opened is entirely up to you.  It could be a lever behind a forbidden door that you only open when all is clear.

1453
Utilities and 3rd Party Applications / Re: DFHack 0.34.10 r1
« on: June 01, 2012, 10:41:12 am »
...
How could I modify this to make a dwarf legendary in ALL skills in one go?

Here you go, version 1.1, with a make_legendary all option:

Spoiler: make_legendary.lua (click to show/hide)

In a future version, I'll be adding the keywords normal, military, social, etc.

1454
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: minimum population ignores pop_cap
« on: May 31, 2012, 09:44:20 pm »
So others can replicate my observations..

worldgen:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(sorry for elevation map in the worldgen, i know it's a big cut/paste, it was faster to designate the mountains rather than waiting on the RNG to place them.)

world_sites_and_pops.txt:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

first year after embark resulted in...
summer - migrants (4)
autumn - migrants (4)
- liaison & caravan visited for winter -
spring - migrants (23)

This was done with a vanilla 34.10 install, no modifications of any kind.  And as you can see, zero dwarves in the world after worldgen was done.  Interestingly, both the outpost liaison and caravan came from "Zon Kod", which is the "Helm of Blotting" civ.

It would seem that as long as there WAS a dwarven civ at some point, even if there are no dwarves remaining, they are perfectly happy to send inhabitants concocted out of Armok's ether to populate your fort. :)

1455
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: minimum population ignores pop_cap
« on: May 31, 2012, 03:58:19 pm »
Now THAT definitely defies current understanding.  Are you sure there are no dwarves?  Where does it say the liaison is coming from?
It lists a civ, it just has no dwarves (or any humanoids) in it, just animals.  zero dwarves, 100% for sure, listed in world_sites_and_pops.txt.

Someone else should definitely try to reproduce this, if it's an unexpected.

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