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Messages - Shakerag

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2896
I'd like an extend as well.  RL has not been kind.

Also, I'm now a bit worried that the statue has apparently already judged the skeleton as unworthy ... but, at the same time, we can still vote for it ... 

Um.  Meph: Is the skeleton also a valid target for actions outside of voting as well?  Like, for a ... let me see the role list ... Warlock or Priest or anything else that interacts with the dead?

2897
Mafia / Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
« on: September 10, 2012, 09:20:36 am »
Ahh, the first time I've been NK'd as an IC.  I shall treasure this memory fondly.

[So, yes, as it may have been stated before, death is a trifling matter for ICs.  Yes, I can't vote or comment on the game directly, but I'll still be about to crack all of you over the head with a shovel if necessary. 

Now that there have been two roleflips, this is an excellent time to review D1 with the knowledge that Wrex and I are confirmed town.  Look at interactions, look at lack of interactions.  Update whatever mental theories you have on who may or may not be scum.]

2898
Sorry, all.  RL has been busier lately than normal, so I've been more lax than I'd like to be across all games.  I am trying to keep up and post when possible.

DS, Jim, Shake: Especially you three. Can you make a case for keeping your vote on the skeleton?
I think Jim put it best, frankly.  We can vote.  For something in the flavor.  Why is hardly anyone catching on to the significance of this?  Exactly how often does such a thing happen?  I'll grant that there may be a small chance it's a red herring, but I stand by my belief that this is a (semi) bastard game, so figuring out the mechanics is integral to winning. 

Bastard Paranormal 1 - No one figured out the mechanics, scum won.
Bastard Paranormal 2 - I was scum, and used the mechanics to scum victory.

So, yes, I'm voting for the skeleton today.  And I'm going to continue to do so because I don't want the scum to steamroll the town again because we were all too afraid to try something different which could lead to us figuring out the bastardness of the game.


zombie urist:  A bandwagon?  On the skeleton?  Seriously? 


A development!  Statue responds!

Statue:  What defines majesty?  What kind of sacrifice would find one worthy?  What happened to the person who is now a skeleton here?  By what standard is the orb activator being judged by?

2899
Wrex, no PM's about the game, please.
[?]
Wrex sent me a PM yesterday asking me to remind him of a question he had been neglecting to answer.
[Please copy that PM to the mod if you haven't already.]

@Everyone else who think's I'm scum damn stupid enough to lynch the ICs in broad daylight on D1 without having or citing any evidence against them at all:
Maybe this will help clarify my mindset: I came in fully expecting that an IC could roll scum.  If that happened, I expected that IC (like any good mafia) to at some point give some poor sucker misleading information during the game, use that misinformation to their advantage to win, and then use the whole situation as an educational talking point in the dead/after-game chat.

How can that not be a possibility, given that the ICs are ostensibly also trying to win?  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, ok— maybe that isn't allowed, or something— but I do not want to be that sucker. If they are scum, they will try to lie convincingly to us at some point.  How can I not desire to guard myself, at least, from buying that lie?  This is why I really like Shake's use of brackets so that I can tell the difference between gameplay and advice; and it's probably part of the reason why I'm still *feeling* a little more touchy around Jim.
[Again, ICs are honor-bound to not mislead you in an instructional role.  If one of us is giving advice/commentary about how you're playing the game, take it in good faith.  Yes, we can mislead you, but only in the context of in-game information (i.e. fakeclaiming a doctor role).  BMXXXIII is a good example, as both ICs were scum, but gave the town earnest advice on how to hunt scum.

And, frankly, speaking as someone who has been scum as a playing IC, we don't need to give you misinformation in the way you were thinking to win.]

Having said that, vodot, while being aggressive isn't a scumtell per se, you do seem to be reacting in a rather strong manner when (at the point of your last post) you didn't seem to have one vote on you. 


Although I don't think it's really acceptable to post my Role PM up for you to see, I'll do my best to satisfy anybody who asks.
[PROTIP: It's not.]


[Tiruin: Loving the flavor so far.  Good job.]

2900
Bookthras thinks me laconic
Unlike you, histrionic
   We need to know the game's trick
   So to Jim don't be a prick
Or when we lose you'll find me sardonic
So what are your reasons for voting Book?
Mostly because he seemed to be not focusing on the bastardy aspects of the game.

Having said that, however, the skeleton.  The fact that a non-player is actually able to be voted is very significant in my mind.  I'm very much in favor of seeing what this does.  Like I said before, figuring out the mechanics are necessary.  Once we at least have an idea on the bastardly mechanics we can properly scumhunt.  I keep thinking back to reading Bastard Paranormal 1 and how town got royally fucked. 

Also:  I vote Bookthras for King of the Limericks.

2901
I can't say whether Native and IO are a team or not, but I have to agree that what OB pointed out seems odd.  Native suddenly shows up near the end of the day with this case on OB, and the whole line about "wanting to lynch a townie on D1" ... only scum would know that for sure on D1. 

Honestly, I don't really have an opinion on the hp-claiming thing.  I don't think that information is going to be useful because it would be trivial to lie about it. 

2902
Sox and Shakerag, are you enjoying the show yet? Two lurkers for the price of one, how convenient... So let me ask, if you were town, what would you think about lurkers? What would you do if there just so happened to be two lurkers, when there are also two Mafia still out and about? Perhaps I'm grasping at straws here, but I haven't seen anything very positive out of you two.

PPE: Just saw your post, Shakerag.
Please note that there are some of us that are post-school, and therefore may not be able to post as often as you whippersnappers.  The bare-minimum for activity is one solid post a day, and I make sure that I try to get at least that in.

Lurkers: If possible, I fire off an inspect or some information-gathering night ability (which includes a vig-kill) at one.  I'm of the opinion that lurking isn't a terribly strong scumtell, because I've seen plenty of town get lynched for doing it.  If there are two lurkers and two scum left, it's possible they're both scum, but there's no good rule of thumb about it to me.  Best thing you can do is go to policy lynch one and see if that spurrs some activity.


Wrex, no PM's about the game, please.
[?]


[OK, Can I pause the hardassery to just say... really? I really did think you would be able to tell pretty much immediately, and that you ICs are basically playing with the kid gloves on.  If you REALLY can't, then I really might be pushing too hard to increase the 'default' level of healthy caution the town should have for the ICs.]
[As has been stated by many ICs before me, we're looking at a bunch of newbies flailing around dropping tells left and right.  We've got a fairly high noise-to-signal ratio when sifting through all the newbtells looking for genuine scumtells here.]


kingfisher1112, why are you still asking RVS questions?


I will, but as I'm sure you've noticed, I've not been up to form. A combination of sleep deprevation, and failing to prevent a suicide, mostly.
[Come back when you're ready.  We'll be here.]

2903
Also just because we’re in the RVS doesn’t mean you should toss around votes like they’re candy. That’s not really a scum thing that’s just how I happen to understand the game.
[In my opinion, we started to leave the RVS phase around the 50-post mark and are certainly past the RVS phase around the 100-post mark.  I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to see if they can figure out why.]


And it takes little effort to win as scum in a Beginner's Mafia. No need to mastermind anything. It's easy to win when no one knows what the hell they're doing.
[And everyone lurks like sons of bitches.  Everyone go look at the previous Beginner's game to see a shining example.]


@Jim, I'm used to Mafiascum games, not because I've played there, because I've read a lot of games there. They play a bit different, because they have longer deadlines. They start the day asking dumb questions and such, they don't jump straight to ask questions like king's. I was mistaken to think that mafiascum and bay12 played the same, so I was a bit surprised with king's questions, and that was my reaction, ask him to answer his own questions.
[You're not the first, and you won't be the last.  Each board likely has its own flow that you have to feel out at first.  Especially if you're coming from face-to-face mafia to here.  Also, you're not the first non-native English speaker here either, so don't get too worried about that.]


I've already agreed that the counter-vote was stupid of me. I said that we were 'luckily' in the RVS because we have the chance to be mistaken, and still pull it off. I don't think I'd vote this happily if we are in D4 or something.
[Just to clarify things a bit.  The vote in the RVS phase is ... more like applying extra pressure to get your questioned answered than really being used as an indicator of who you're suspicious of.  Regardless, when you vote someone, you need reasons.  Voting someone along with a question to pressure them to answer it?  Fine.  Voting someone and stating why they're scum?  Great.  Just stating that you're putting a vote on someone?  Bzzt.]


Shakerag, if you think I'm one iota less suspicious of you than I am of Jim, you're wrong. How does your mafia philosophy differ from Jim's? How would you pick a great player like Jim apart if you suspected he was scum?
Oh good.  I always seem to evade notice of many players for some reason.  This gives me warm fuzzies.  However, you need to clarify your "philosophy" question, because just asking about my philosophy and how it differs from Jim's could be a thesis-level response. 

How would I pick apart Jim if I suspected he was scum?  [joke] I wouldn't.  I'd pray for an inspect result.  And even then, no guarantees. [/joke]  Against someone with an overwhelmingly strong day game, I'd be more looking to prove everyone else isn't scum, so that the remaining player is scum by process of elimination. 

Additionally, I ask you scum questions because I'd rather ask an excellent player I know is required to give me good answers and information about how he would play the scum side, since I am otherwise going to acquire exactly zero first-hand information about playing the scum side this game, until i read the scum chat and discuss the game with everyone afterward.
That's nice, but I'd expect scum to say the same things. 

2904
The Orbs seem to be the same, and no indication has been given as to which Orb to touch.
I guess I wasn't clear -_-  I know the Orbs are the same, but do they differ in thier surroundings?  Whatever they're on, markings on the wall, etc.?


Shakerag:: Then...don't post in limerick? This isn't a sorceror's apprentice game.
Well, I saw Bookthras do it at the start of the game ... and I always wanted to post in limerick at least once -_-


Seriously, though.  Recalling Bastard Paranormals 1 and 2, there was nothing really "RP" related that affected the game, but figuring out the bastard part of the game was necessary for winning.  Yes, we need to hunt scum, obviously, but only doing that is why town lost BP1. 

Having said that ... Unless someone has something they want to claim that may be related to the bastardness of this game, I propose that we carry out D1 like normal and see what happens N1 before delving too deeply in bastard-speculation, as we have little to go off of right now. 

2905
Mafia / Re: Notable Games Archive
« on: September 05, 2012, 11:20:26 am »
snip
-1 to everything except BP2, to which +1. To BMXXXIII and KotMC -2.
Good thing your opinion doesn't matter.
Good thing your opinion doesn't matter.
Ladies, ladies!  I think you're both pretty, okay? 

2906
Meph, I have a bit of a qualm
How do we know which sphere to palm?
    Four orbs look the same
    Also alike in frame?
Do we pick our orb with aplomb?


Bookthras thinks me laconic
Unlike you, histrionic
   We need to know the game's trick
   So to Jim don't be a prick
Or when we lose you'll find me sardonic
   
(PFP: More later.  Takes longer to post in limerick >_>)

2907
Mafia / Re: Notable Games Archive
« on: September 05, 2012, 10:24:38 am »
No one has had any notable games in about a year?  :(

BYOR 8 - Survior masons, Shakerag went batshit insane.  Also, poetry (for Bookthras!)

Politibastard - Wasn't in it, but it looked crazy awesome. 

BSER - Bookthras RP'd the Wall of Flesh.  Really, what more do you want?  Also, dat flavor.

Bastard Paranormal 2 - Interesting mechanics, especially in context of how Paranormals usually go.

BMXXXIII: Both ICs were scum.  Always entertaining.  Also, Jim does lolcatspeak.

BMXXXV: Excellent flavor, perfect example of why lurking lets scum win.

King of the Mafia Continued: All hail Leafsnail, new King of the Mafia!

Paranormal 20 - Hardcore Dopp hosing.  Xeno shenanigans.  Hivemind shenanigans. 

2908
Mafia / Re: BYOR 9 - Game Over: Internet Died, Town Wins
« on: September 05, 2012, 09:21:53 am »

2909
Mafia / Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
« on: September 04, 2012, 02:39:49 pm »
[Some observational notes:]

[Everyone: Think of the discussion in this game like flowing water, and you all are pipes.  If your post is just an answer to a question, the flow stops there.  If the flow stops, then the water stagnates.  Then nothing happens. 
Try to have some "output" in most (if not all) of your posts.  Ask a new question.  Ask a follow-up question.  Apply pressure.  Get someone's thoughts on something happening in the thread.]

Nerjin: If you were mafia, who would you kill?

I'm not going to answer that question. Mainly because if I do then I'm dead. If I said for example "I say -Player- because -reasons-" then the scum will just kill -Player- and then the next day you'd say something along the lines of "When I asked -Question- on day 1 you said -Player- and now they're dead. You obviously had something to do with it." Sorry but that seems like a really dangerous question to answer.
[This is a favorite topic of Jim's, but I'll go ahead and make a point here.  Trying to dissect why the scumteam killed someone is going to be almost always fruitless.  This is a perfect example of WIFOM.  Keep your attention focused on the day game.]


@markressler If you cut my pinky in half that is the size of the FOS I throw at you.
[Why are you FoSing him?]


Unvote

[Nerjin: Please use quotes when quoting other players.]

[vodot: Blue text is for FoSing a player's name, not ... whatever the hell it is you're doing.]

Wrex: You have two outstanding questions.  Why aren't you answering them?

[Kamin: Don't quote that way.  It's god-awfully horrible for the rest of us to follow.  Even if you're not going to use the built-in quote function on the forum, at least indicate a name and post number as reference to what you're replying to.  Example.]


Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?
[You believe wrong.  Scum has a guaranteed IC that isn't a player.  In this game, that role is being filled by Dariush.  The two playing ICs have as equal of a chance as anyone else to be scum.  BM33 - Both ICs were on the scumteam.  Many games neither IC is on the scumteam.  Sometimes just one of the ICs is on the scumteam.  You can't make assumptions to that effect. 

To answer your question, my number one scumtell is getting caught in a lie.]

2910
Mafia / Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
« on: September 04, 2012, 11:59:45 am »
[Good day, newlings.  Jim has a fantastic opening speech for these games, so I won't go into much detail right now.]

[You may note that I'm speaking in square brackets.  This is my personal choice to indicate that I'm speaking to you as an IC and not a player.  Anything I say in brackets you can take to be straight advice that is not biased by game information.]

[We here at Bay12 start off the day in the RVS phase.  Here you randomly vote a player and throw out some questions to get discussion started.  This continues until some player spots something, anything suspicious in an answer, and the questions shift from random (yet game-related) questions to questions about behavior in the current game.  You may find it helpful to ask questions that could become relevant later in the game.  I.e. if you ask a player what they would do in situation X as town, and that situation comes up later in the game and they do something different, you may be able to refer back to your RVS question when building a case on that player.]

[Absolutely don't be afraid to ask questions.  This is the most appropriate time and place to be asking questions.  Keep active, moderate your humor, and if you edit your post I will fuck you with a shovel.]


I'd like you to answer those questions, king.
[Try to come up with your own content/questions.  If this wasn't a beginner's game, you would have been dragged over the coals already.]


Yarr! Avast, ye heretics!
Suck it, scumbucket.  [Please note, Dariush is not playing.  Do not feed the Dariush.]


Q1: The less scummy one.
The less scummy one what, markressler?


In a beginner's game, I'd gladly ride someone else's coattails to glory, not to mention the learning experience it would provide.
[And you'd get lynched for it long before victory.]


All this questions make me feel like I'm less than a newbie, haha.
[Your first game(s) will likely be horrible.  The ICs are here to help make sure your non-beginner's games won't be.]


[Most people in RVS will ask between one and four questions per post.  I'm going to tag everyone just for the sake of getting everyone involved.]

Nerjin: It's D2 and you're a cop.  You got a town result on someone last night.  You do not know if there are any other power roles.  There are seven players left including yourself.  Do you claim your result today?

wsoxfan: It's N1 and you're a doc.  Your top scumpick was lynched, and you have pretty poor reads on everyone else.  Re-reading through the thread, what do you look for to help you decide who to protect?

Kamin: It's 3-player LYLO, and you're a vanilla townie.  Both remaining players have claimed they're the doc.  Neither claim has any obvious holes in it.  How do you decide who to trust?

kingfisher1112: You're scum, and your scumbuddy is telling you that he's reasonably sure the person voting him (who he is voting for already) is the cop.  You have reason to believe there is a doc in the game.  Do you risk being called on chainsawing to mislynch the cop, or try to take him out at night?

markressler: You're a cop who hasn't claimed.  You're in 3-person LYLO.  You have inspected both remaining players as town.  How do you decide which to lynch?  Also, do you claim?

vodot: It's D2, and you're a cop.  The person who you inspected as scum is tied with another player in votes.  Do you claim?

Wrex: It's D2, and you're a doc.  Your protect was not triggered last night. You're tied with another player in votes.  Do you claim?

Jim Groovester: Did you ever think that newbie from BM27 would be ICing with you in a future game?  Also, if you were a godfather and there was a guaranteed cop in the game, would you modify your gameplay?

PPE:
Shakerag-it's day 4. There are two people besides you left. One is not scummy, but a person who was voting him was nightkilled. The second player seems scummy, and you were voting him in the last round. Who would you vote for? (essentially, if you were in Hapah's position in the endgame of BM XXXIV, what would you do?)
Something that wouldn't get me smacked upside the head with a shovel.  By that I mean that I would be doing what any good player should be doing in LYLO - grilling both of the players left and heavily re-reading the thread to make sure I'm voting scum. 



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