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Messages - gogis

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1
"Ok, I know I've got a bit of a problem with black people but I've had some bad experiences with them, alright? I got robbed for god's sake... I'm totally not racist though."

Uh-oh. You are typical who can't draw a line between racism and prejudice. It's not black and white world, dear friend, it's just you need time to understand that (but you never will). I know, racism guilt is so western, but don't be so predictable. I saw your move miles ahead. I grew up in USSR where racism was sort of a treason, so your complexes is not aplliable to me.

You all dogpiled on me today even if I was pretty benign to my standards. You all so predictable, poor lads...

/inbefore ban, now for real

2
Liberty and equality.

It's curious that, given that you seem to support Putin's "managed democracy" (how do you reconcile that with a desire for liberty?) and you have shown views in the past that are quite at odds with equality.

My views on democracy is most likely not in line with yours. I kinda believe it's a rule of majority(not sovereignity of person). Name it a mob rule or not, but it's majority, conformist style. I realise that majority of Russians is not sharing my views, but whatnot.
I am pro gay, pro choice, militant atheist, which automatically put me in less than 1% of population.
Am I odds with equality? No. I kinda somewhat odd with caucasus people because of my past endeavors with them, but I am usually open with any person beforehand. My local groceries is 100% caucasus people and I friendly chit-chat with them. My basic principle - stab me and I answer one-hundred-fold. Thats why I am so militant on country outer politics and generally hostile to verbal/personal abuse.

3
snip

Funny how the strongest critics of the US government are Americans but Russians feel the need to attack those who document what their government does.

I can't deduce -snip- because it's derogatory, as any of  your answers to me.

-snip-
is used to shorten responses so the page doesn't scroll on and on with massive quotes. If you don't follow the convo, click the quote url at the top of the quote.
Kinda goes with the 'don't double-post' attitude.

It's not derogatory.

I perfectly know what "snip" means. On the other hand, deleting lines and leaving ones you want answer to is a much better move.
Reread his message again. Do you know what words he answers? No, you don't. You need to retrack my previous messages.

4
Can we seriously just ignore Gogis ? At least Sergarr is willing to concede, Gogis is just....acting like a troll

It's fun that 'willing to concede' is shown as a virtue here. Okay...

5
- Russia acted because military tech and production centers in Ukraine are important geopolitically
- There naval base which is important geopolitically
- NATO is a paper tiger in continental Europe both logistically and army composition wise

I am peace loving liberal who is 100% agree with that. And I am sure all points is correct.

Gogis, can I ask you a civil question? How do you define "Liberal"?

Liberty and equality.

6
snip

Funny how the strongest critics of the US government are Americans but Russians feel the need to attack those who document what their government does.

I can't deduce -snip- because it's derogatory, as any of  your answers to me.

7
If NATO was out to get Russia then the Russian invasion of Crimea would have been all the excuse NATO needed.

NATO big bad evil thing.  Politician said so.  Politician wants you to vote for him to keep away big scary NATO.  Must be working because big scary NATO hasn't actually hurt you at all.

- Russia acted because military tech and production centers in Ukraine are important geopolitically
- There naval base which is important geopolitically
- NATO is a paper tiger in continental Europe both logistically and army composition wise

I am peace loving liberal who is 100% agree with that. And I am sure all points is correct.


8
Annexed? Dude, they fucking invaded/destroyed so many countries in the past that its 10 times worse than what happend with crimea. Same shit, actually worse shit

And the Russians supported the use of chemical weapons on unarmed civilians in Syria... If you are going to do the any bad shit anywhere in the world excuse then surprise surprise Russia doesn't look too good.

Do you realize that there is still no evidence to who did that? You know that on wikipedia page for that event link for MIT research is still not approved? And you know what happens in comments?

I will quote

--
The article needs updating based on the evidence from the recently released MIT study, See for example here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/15/5488779/new-analysis-of-rocket-used-in.html -Helvetica (talk) 08:32, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

'too short for the device to have been fired from the Syrian government positions where the Obama administration insists they originated.' - that doesn't mean they argue it means regime non[1] -responsibility - a link to the MIT study would be better than 'interpretations' of what they said from pov sources- especially russsia Today, which is a ref at the moment - that is not really a RS , it is propaganda Sayerslle (talk) 02:04, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
--

Reading that drivel was a joy

9
Putin's actions is not an answer to "NATO aggressive policy"

NATO is acting aggressive, if you fail to see that it's your own problem. Previously I asked 3 questions and if you can't answer that 3 questions, you can't put agression in quotation marks.

10
gogis you appear to be the extreme between the extremes. I need a new dimension for the chart now.

Which is incredibly funny, because I am most moderate and liberal person you ever can imagine. I keep posting general Russian public opinion and everybody project it as my own. This is insane. But I am furiously against any insults to people, goverment and, especially, myself. Thats a touchy subject.

11
Also calling separatists 'pro-russian' is a vast exaggeratoin, mostly they are pro-autonomy. And they are minority. Concerned, but still minority. Most russian ukrainians does not want to be part of Russia and vice versa. I am tired of both sides using strong words, which only says about both sides went strongly on propaganda. But for christ sake, where is western neutral media? Why to get neutral(or not so much) opinion I need to open up something like aljazeera?

Judging by what this Cossack volunteer from Krasnodar (who was also in Crimea) says he's hoping for the annexation of the Donbass. Reclaim Russian territory, no less. Autonomy doesn't seem to be on his mind.

Let me put it bluntly.
Russia doesnt want to annex any parts of Ukraine. It's incredible economic burden, and, most importanly - against public opinion. Of both countries. And Putin is not going to risk that.
And don't believe Knit Tie, actually Putin was elected by majority. You can see it, if you live here. Majority was pro-Putin.
Also notice that majority of Ukraine is against annexation. "Donetsk Republic" sporting it's own flag, for that matters.

Most russians perceive current Ukraine goverment as illegal and perceive it's as a coup being orchestrated by US. That just majority opinion, not a fact. Also early in this thread was a recent poll results on various matters from ukrainians. And I believe these numbers are pretty correct. Notice no majority to secede to Russia, actually we talking single digits.

If you happened to know russian I would provide you with dozens of links on russian main TV-channels talk shows where both sides(including ukrainians, no maidan) concur on the matter that annexation is not going to happen, ever. Following your agenda that all russian media is rigged, it's a projection to future.

Further annexation is not going to happen

12
Russia has demonstrated that it doesn't care about how international community will see their actions....

Yet Russia still couldn't get an answer from west of why NATO keep going eastwards and plant bases, surrounding Russia. Yeah yeah, it's sounds like paranoia, but that phenomena was never explained. I like how west invented term "conspiracy theory" for unlikely truth. Btw, you know what purpose of NATO ofc (sure?)

Why you keep accepting countries closer and closer to our border? "It's not your business".
(I like how telling is this demotivator http://www.batr.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/natorussia.jpg)
What with a vocal promise of Reagan administration to not push NATO eastwards? "It's was not written on paper"
Why you put missile defence in Poland? "To protect against Iran"

You got to be kidding me. You can't honestly and deliberately answer to any of that questions.
And you expect any other answer from paranoid ex-KGB agent? Putin is most likely insane. Or atleast sort of. And he now contagious and population receiving it. I gulped on my coffee when I saw in a work chat "Ура! Отжали таки Крым!". It was opening wtf moment when I realised how serious is that. But who concocted all that situation beforehand?

13
I agree, thats why I don't think it's work of Russian spec ops. It's just silly. Compare to how work was done in Crimea, no similarities. Notice also that many separatists doesnt wear masks.
Or it's a deliberate provocation because they want the Ukrainians to give them an excuse for war.  Like I said a month ago, the Ukrainians win if this doesn't become a military conflict.  Putin wins if this becomes a military conflict without NATO intervention.  Both lose if it becomes a war with NATO intervention.

1. If Russia really wanted war they will did that already. It's not hard to squash Ukraine army. And it's absurdly bad thing to do for both internal and outer PR.
2. NATO real conventional power is exaggerated. They not just very slow to gather any formidable force in place (google it), they also overrated in terms of continental warfare power (substract navy and aviation).
If you think that Russians is in awe of NATO power you are delusional. It's not just stupid to compare tech levels or military budget absolute numbers, it's also very dangerous to speculate on what happen when you speak about ICBM wielding nations. It's dr.Strangelove level of stupidity. And very dangerous thinking.

14
The books are well-written and enjoyable, I myself am a fan, but David Weber grossly oversimplifies politics and frequently uses exagerrated caricatures - one of which is the Manticoran liberal party.

Anyway, welcome back!

Welcome back?

I liked the part of the books where Weber was pretending he was pretending he was C.S. Forester.  I just resented that I had to get through Webers uninspired tory claptrap to get there.  It's somewhat scares me that someone would draw analogies to the unrealistic nonsense of those books.

Because unrealistic representation of there liberal party is so similar to this thread medium.  Which is obviously is not liberal in any sense.

15
And actually, kidnapping foreigners seems like shooting your own nuts foot at the moment; remember what made USA join the World War I?

I agree, thats why I don't think it's work of Russian spec ops. It's just silly. Compare to how work was done in Crimea, no similarities. Notice also that many separatists doesnt wear masks.

I notice here nobody mentioned that both Putin and Lavrov on many accounts stated that Russia does not intend to annex any part of Ukraine. Especially Lavrov, he was on several talk shows and he expressed alot of points why current situation happened and it's have nothing to do with imperialism.

I am pretty sure they hold hidden agenda about military tech and production in Ukraine not going to fall in hands of NATO but I can only guess.

Also calling separatists 'pro-russian' is a vast exaggeratoin, mostly they are pro-autonomy. And they are minority. Concerned, but still minority. Most russian ukrainians does not want to be part of Russia and vice versa. I am tired of both sides using strong words, which only says about both sides went strongly on propaganda. But for christ sake, where is western neutral media? Why to get neutral(or not so much) opinion I need to open up something like aljazeera?

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