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Messages - gogis

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121
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 02:45:05 pm »
Well, the Type 3 page lacks numbers, but... Barak 8, seriously? Developed in 2009, range 70km, altitude 16km, speed Mach 2... Whereas the S-300PT, developed in 1981, has speed of over mach 4, altitude of over 20km, and juust falls short with 70km operational range that was the limitation of the detection array, rather than the missile.
[/quote]

Btw, dont emphaize age of something, as I said I was born in Votkinsk and I worked in it's prominent plant, and my father still works there. Just read a short summary of this town in wikipedia and you will understand what I mean. Granted, I have no full information, it's unavailable without security clearance, but when I say that something is real and something not, I have a slight clue.

122
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 02:36:55 pm »
Quote
There is no better SAM's though, currently.
Said who? It was never tested in actual combat and there are plenty more modern developments. Like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_3_Chū-SAM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barak_8_(missile)

[sarcasm] How can Japan and Israel design something better than 1980s weapon systems? That countries have shitty defense industries comparing to what USSR had[/sarcasm]
Well, the Type 3 page lacks numbers, but... Barak 8, seriously? Developed in 2009, range 70km, altitude 16km, speed Mach 2... Whereas the S-300PT, developed in 1981, has speed of over mach 4, altitude of over 20km, and juust falls short with 70km operational range that was the limitation of the detection array, rather than the missile.

Sorry, but no. There are likely better SAMs than ours somewhere, but these are not it.

I was ironic about his posts. He attacked me with links to systems which is HUGELY inferior to ours in any charesteristic, and he attacked it's age. Which is silly. That why I said s-300 wikipage have more writing. And I really want to read about better SAM's which is better, but I didn't find any in open internetz. "Likely" - please, provide links.

123
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 02:33:21 pm »
http://lenta.ru/articles/2014/04/01/s400forchina/

Putin is going to sell s-400 to China. So China ties is going strong liek right now.
(guys, I deliberately put pro-Kremlin links just to show you, how I feel when you post huge(most) amount of links to clearly anti-russian propaganda materials)

124
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 02:29:12 pm »
They apparently going to make Crimea a russian Las-Vegas  :D
http://lenta.ru/articles/2014/04/01/casino/

This actually makes sense, cuz all casinos was closed. I don't see it's a bad choice. Guaranteed investments

125
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 02:24:30 pm »
Quote
There is no better SAM's though, currently.
Said who? It was never tested in actual combat and there are plenty more modern developments. Like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_3_Chū-SAM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barak_8_(missile)

I like that this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_(missile) have something to actually read. What is this tells to you?

Quote
[sarcasm] How can Japan and Israel design something better than 1980s weapon systems? That countries have shitty defense industries comparing to what USSR had[/sarcasm]

You really need to look up definition on word "refit". Also look up s-400 and s-500.

126
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 02:06:16 pm »
100% reliably? Likely not. "Reliably enough" is a different matter though. And SAMs are just one part of it - Tunguskas are combined anti-air autocannon and missile systems, so they can engage both aircraft and cruise missiles equally well.

Lets not forget Iskander's as well. It's contracted all the way up to 2020+

127
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 01:57:48 pm »
Can SAMs reliably shoot down Tomahawks and Predator drones?

You realise it's not ever be going public? There is no better SAM's though, currently. Allegedly. Nobody is going to tell you classified information. I am pretty sure both sides went far to make stealth more stealthy and sams more sammy. We don't know end result. We are just common folks.

Although, you need to notice the trend that one side is heavily offensive, another side is heavily defensive. Let's talk about intents, huh

128
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 01:35:08 pm »
You do realize the Peninsular War was a guerilla campaign, right?  More Frenchmen served in Spain itself then Russia and the spanish had the largest colonial empire in the world, which was of considerable economic importance even if it did get torn apart by the war.

Why you asking me like I have no idea what we talking about? I provided you with a link to incredibly long and thorough documentary of Napoleon life with hundreds of numbers and details provided about everything and you keep arguing. Spanish campaign started before Russian, was not supervised directly by Napoleon most of the time and economic woes doesnt affected ability of Napoleon to field enormously huge grand army to march towards their demise in Russian wastelands. And if you don't know simple facts that there was plenty of guerilla warfare in Russian campaign including scorched earth tactics, setting Moscow ablaze, cossacs raids etc then I have no intention to discuss this topic with you. You are way ignorant to simple historical facts, it's like arguing with idiot, which never works. You was caught so many times on posting bullshits it's beyond my patience.

> Poland is even less dependent on natural gas then Europe's average, primarily because they are a major coal producer and use much more coal.

No it's not that simple, because you need refit boiler stations infrastructure for heat purposes and replacing gas stoves in houses with electrical ones. Who is going to pay for that? It's grandiose money investment. You make it look like energy of one type is directly replacable with another.

Also http://www.energy.ca.gov/lng/safety.html . Another huge money sink.

> If Europe was willing to absorb some costs they could squash Russia like a bug.

No it's not. You need to read on upcoming talks with China on suborbitant amounts of $$$ on natural gas exports which is going to happen in 2018. I gave link already in this thread. If anything is going to happen, Europe will suffer more in long run. And they know that. And in reality, nothing is going wrong, because EU-Russia ties will grow even stronger. It's a win-win, while US posture is just a bully.

>That might limit the effectiveness of air supremacy but it's not going to stop stealth fighters from doing deep penetration missions >to clear the air.  If NATO forces can keep Russian planes far from the fight and operate freely close to friendly forces (where those >things wouldn't dare operate) then air superiority will still count for a lot.

>Let's discuss the advantages NATO has briefly

Yawn...

>1) Complete air superiority.

Oh, here we go.

Bla bla bla.
NATO aircraft... We have top notch SAM's for that (try to google it). Sheer fact that you unaware it's even exists not doing you any favor. Speaking in Civilization terms, it's stupid to use bombers against cities surrounded by mobile SAMS, if you can't clear land units with tanks, which you have in lower numbers (bar logistical nightmare to field it). NATO indeed have best offensive army in the world. But Russia have best defensive combo in the world. You can't beat SAM's + Tanks. It's not going to happen. And for the record, we have top notch rocket artillery too, but you need to make research yourself (google, starts with I).
Arguments about conscription/poor soldiers is stupid. These machines personnel is highly trained and on professional contracts. Nobody is going to send troops. It's rock-paper-scissors game. SAM against Air, Tanks against Troops, Rocket Artillery against... pretty much anything on land. It's an offensive nightmare. And NATO knows it. It's just you, who not aware.
Troop skills... you gotta be kidding be. We live in the age of materiel warfare, what troops you talking about? Shooting poorly trained arabs with ak's?





129
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 11:24:36 am »
Russians thinking they were the primary defeater of Nappy is about as dumb as Americans thinking they deserve the credit for taking down Hitler.  Russia didn't do the most economic damage (the was England) and Russia didn't do the most military damage (the was Spain) and both England and Spain each did more economic and military damage then Russia.

Nice to know that the Ruskies are just as capable as the Americans in the chauvinism department.

You realize how huge discrepancy between active size of military force used in Peninsular War and Russian Campaign? Like real numbers? You either bad in math or you have very strange sources of information.

Sheer size of an army Napoleon raised to invade Russia was unprecedented.

edit: Suprisingly, I see Napoleon as most positive thing happened to Europe  :P

130
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 11:14:51 am »
England sailors and Spanish guerrillas? (where do you think that word comes from?)

I recommend you to watch this excelent documenatry
http://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Napoleon_(PBS_Empires)

You emphasizing not *that* significant events just showing your real level of ignorance or level of brainwashing you received.

131
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 11:04:17 am »
You know what is the difference between Europe and Russia?

In Europe, if you'll delay a salary for a week you'll get a riot. In Russia if you delay a salary for a year you'll get "Uh. OK" and later their children say that is a great achievement to endure that kind of treatment.

You will get a riot right now here as well. I quit my lost job because my employee tried to enforce me to work from 11 till 19, when I insisted that I better cope with my schedule and rythm working 14 to 20. Yes I can afford that quirks because finding new job is like a week-two tops. Thats because our economy is just fine right now.
But when economy in collapse and quitting does nothing good because it's will cause even bigger state-scale havoc, you tighten your belt and grind through difficulties, not give up.

Quote
Varies. Some changed job. Some went farming. Some emigrated. Some started their own business. And our economy is in a bad state exactly because too much people acted like Russians and we don't have enough oil and gas to compensate that

You can't change job, because there is no jobs. Literally. And everybody farmed. You don't get the point. You don't give up when it's rough or you're done. Thats probably what differentiate Russians and Ukrainians.

132
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 10:48:05 am »
BTW, my relatives left their jobs after the first month of no paying. I never denied that among Ukrainians we have people with mentality of slaves.

And what they did afterwards? We got all our money in the end. Isn't that a suprise your economy in such a state with mentality like that?

133
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 10:44:35 am »
To be fair, Afghanistan also broke the British Empire and sort of broke the US. Not so much broke than 'absolutely tired of this war and want to get the hell outta here'.

To be fair I was just listing the countries that broke the Russians not commenting on the difficulty of the fight.

Despite me being harassed plenty of times here for my poor english skill, you need to revisit your definition of "broken will" phrase. It's better applied to european nations in times of napoleonic wars and WWII. Guess who saved their asses.
Last time I checked, huge territory is still there on the map.

134
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 10:26:18 am »
Besides the fact that Russian will has been broken by Swedes (1617), Finns (1918), Baltics (1583), Lithuanians (1919), Estonians(1918), Latvians (1920), Poles (1921), Turks (1681), Georgians (1920), Afganis (1989), a bunch of 'stani's I don't feel like looking up, Mongols (14th century in general), Chinese (1652), Japanese (1905), Germans (1917) and the goddamn French (1856), this statement is somewhat true.

I stopped reading after that. My eyes keep rolling so hard I can't even read further.

135
General Discussion / Re: UR's Post-USSR politics megathread
« on: April 01, 2014, 10:22:35 am »
Quote
My family lost all bank savings in 90s and parents wages was delayed up to 14-16 months at peak. Guess what, we still here. You really understimate endurance and little needs of slaves
Fixed that for you. Because only a mental slave can keep going to work while not being paid for more than a year
A nice remark from a nation of bandits.

And a nice remark from a nation descended from norse 'barbarians'.

Just slinging around insults if that's what we are doing......
You've just insulted the whole Scandinavia.

By implying the Rus are at least in part, descended from Vikings?

I did it in quotes, I don't ACTUALLY think the Norse were barbarians, they're an awesome culture.

I dare to say that barbarians can't be seen as bad on DF forums. Vikings? Barbarians? Isn't that inherently awesome?

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