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Messages - Reelya

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17161
Large debts, and living week to week. Also, they are predominantly renters, not property owners. So the only asset they own is usually an old car.

This is net worth, how they define wealth. Assets minus liabilities.

Of course they might have non-liquid assets like a TV, clothes, etc. but those aren't counted in this sort of thing normally.

17162
Study finds median wealth for single black women at $5

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Among the most startling revelations in the wealth data is that while single white women in the prime of their working years (ages 36 to 49) have a median wealth of $42,600 (still only 61 percent of their single white male counterparts), the median wealth for single black women is only $5.

17163
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Word association game
« on: March 13, 2012, 02:36:41 am »
Patch

17164
Here = Australia. But, kindergarten is really just playtime, so it's not like you can't play at home. I doubt that the specific learning at kindergarten is as important to the next year as brain development in general is.

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"It’s almost unheard of for a child to show up hungry or homeless. Finland provides three years of maternity leave and subsidized day care to parents, and preschool for all 5-year-olds, where the emphasis is on play and socializing."

^ AHAH - their "pre-school" is the same as our "kindergarten". So in this respect, school begins at the same age.

I should've known there was something fishy about the "school only starts at 7" thing. It's a difference of terminology, not practice.

And, here school is 6 hours for primary and 6.5 hours for secondary. Maybe Finland is less than USA but not less than Australia. I find it hard to believe that school would only last 5 hours there. What's the typical school hours in America?

EDIT: I checked and the school day in Finland is 6 hours, about the same as Australia. Not much less than America either. So that's not a reason, and no evidence that the Fin's believe extra home-time helps.

====

But, even with (very marginally) shorter hours, that's not what the Fin's are saying is the "winning" point. So i don't think Finland's system can be used as a justification for "unschooling". In fact, all the "good" points of unschooling could be seen to be used within the Finnish education system. Which actually shows that there's no actual reason to home-school to get those benefits.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html?c=y&page=1
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"Many schools are small enough so that teachers know every student. If one method fails, teachers consult with colleagues to try something else. They seem to relish the challenges."

"Nearly 30 percent of Finland’s children receive some kind of special help during their first nine years of school. The school where Louhivuori teaches served 240 first through ninth graders last year; and in contrast with Finland’s reputation for ethnic homogeneity, more than half of its 150 elementary-level students are immigrants—from Somalia, Iraq, Russia, Bangladesh, Estonia and Ethiopia, among other nations."

(NOTE: this actually contradicts the BBC article which claimed ethnic homogeneity was the reason they do so well).

"here are no mandated standardized tests in Finland, apart from one exam at the end of students’ senior year in high school. There are no rankings, no comparisons or competition between students, schools or regions. Finland’s schools are publicly funded. The people in the government agencies running them, from national officials to local authorities, are educators, not business people, military leaders or career politicians. Every school has the same national goals and draws from the same pool of university-trained educators. The result is that a Finnish child has a good shot at getting the same quality education no matter whether he or she lives in a rural village or a university town. The differences between weakest and strongest students are the smallest in the world, according to the most recent survey by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). “Equality is the most important word in Finnish education. All political parties on the right and left agree on this,” said Olli Luukkainen, president of Finland’s powerful teachers union."

" “We prepare children to learn how to learn, not how to take a test,” said Pasi Sahlberg, a former math and physics teacher who is now in Finland’s Ministry of Education and Culture. “We are not much interested in PISA. It’s not what we are about.” "

" “Play is important at this age,” Rintola would later say. “We value play.” "

17165
Well here we have kindergarten which is basically semi-structured free play time. Not much different at all to unschooling, except it's in a classroom.

Mostly i remember playing with blocks and plastic train sets from kindergarten. Probably the Fin's decided you could play with blocks at home, so kindergarten is unnecessary.

The real big differences between typical Anglo education and Finland happen later.

17166
World's best system = Finland

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8601207.stm

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In 2006, Finland's pupils scored the highest average results in science and reading in the whole of the developed world. In the OECD's exams for 15 year-olds, known as PISA, they also came second in maths, beaten only by teenagers in South Korea.
This isn't a one-off: in previous PISA tests Finland also came out top.

The Finnish philosophy with education is that everyone has something to contribute and those who struggle in certain subjects should not be left behind.

A tactic used in virtually every lesson is the provision of an additional teacher who helps those who struggle in a particular subject. But the pupils are all kept in the same classroom, regardless of their ability in that particular subject.

According to the OECD, Finnish children spend the fewest number of hours in the classroom in the developed world.
This reflects another important theme of Finnish education.

Primary and secondary schooling is combined, so the pupils don't have to change schools at age 13. They avoid a potentially disruptive transition from one school to another.

Children in Finland only start main school at age seven. The idea is that before then they learn best when they're playing and by the time they finally get to school they are keen to start learning.

Teaching is a prestigious career in Finland. Teachers are highly valued and teaching standards are high.
The educational system's success in Finland seems to be part cultural. Pupils study in a relaxed and informal atmosphere.

17167
The problem with unschooling is that it's the same thing we all did as kids, run around, play, explore, with-or-without parents. But, rather than complementing traditional learning, it replaces it.
Except thats not what the article you just linked describes.

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Unschooling is a range of educational philosophies and practices centered on allowing children to learn through their natural life experiences, including play, game play, household responsibilities, work experience, and social interaction, rather than through a more traditional school curriculum. There are some who find it controversial.[1] Unschooling encourages exploration of activities, often initiated by the children themselves, facilitated by the adults.

That's exactly what it says. We did all those things when i was a kid, AS WELL as school. How did the "natural life experiences" of "play, game play, household responsibilities, work experience" when I was a kid not equate to the same thing as unschooling? We had all those experiences.

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Unschoolers often state that learning any specific subject is less important than learning how to learn

Which is more crap because we did all the things that they describe in my household on top of regular schooling. Being able to deal with deadlines etc is an important skill in life, too, as well as "do it at your own pace". People do need to learn to deal with social pressure etc. Not everything in life can be effectively done "at your own pace".

And another main problem is that society doesn't give a hoot how englightened you are. Society wants to see a bit of paper saying you graduated from school with good marks! For better or worse, how are these "unschooled" people going to get into college?

Anyway, the oldest kid in that family is 5 years old. Let's see how their kids fare as they get older. Unschooling has been around since the 1970's surely we can have a case study somewhere of a success story to judge the theory?

17168
The problem with unschooling is that it's the same thing we all did as kids, run around, play, explore, with-or-without parents. But, rather than complementing traditional learning, it replaces it.

I used to fart around doing all that for 8 hours a day, plus school. Is farting around for 14 hours a day really optimal? Plus it has a complete dicky name.

Actually this was coined in the 1970's and they're basing their child-rearing on a 1978 book ... debunked 30+ year old social theories are the latest thing in this household.

17169
^^ That. Unfortunately, women are still grossly underrepresented in those fields (at least, in the west. Ironically, in more patriarchal countries, the male/woman ratio in STEM fields is much closer to unity)

This is covered in several books, e.g. Susan Pinkers book The Sexual Paradox. The idea that the two genders are exactly the same and that only socialization makes a difference was in vogue 40 years ago, there's little clinical evidence to state we're identical.

In third-world countries, you have few choices, those with the talent pick the career which will make the most money. Funny enough, Scandinavian countries - those with inarguably the best gender equity in the world have the highest divide between stereo-typical male / female roles in work. Why are the countries with the broadest choice for females (with paid maternity leave, equal pay laws, and the whole rest)  more likely not less to show a divide between "typical" male/female roles?

Also, the gay / transgender argument that people "knew" their gender identity from birth, at odds with what society was telling them, seems to confirm that there is some level of personality traits which are inherent (probably from hormones exposed in the womb).

If we assume people are a "blank slate" with gender, we also would have to assume we're a blank slate with other personality traits.

--

Consider something like Oxytocin hormone

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Oxytocin is best known for its roles in sexual reproduction, in particular during and after childbirth. It is released in large amounts after distension of the cervix and uterus during labor, facilitating birth, and after stimulation of the nipples, facilitating breastfeeding.
Recent studies have begun to investigate oxytocin's role in various behaviors, including orgasm, social recognition, pair bonding, anxiety, and maternal behaviors. For this reason, it is sometimes referred to as the "love hormone". The inability to secrete oxytocin and feel empathy is linked to sociopathy, psychopathy, narcissism and general manipulativeness.

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Empathy in healthy males has been shown to be increased after intranasal oxytocin. This is most likely due to the effect of oxytocin in enhancing eye gaze. There is some discussion about which aspect of empathy oxytocin might alter - for example, cognitive vs. emotional empathy.

Basically clinical trials of oxytocin on men showed that the experimental groups are measurably more able to recognize facial emotions than a control group. This hormone exists in much higher levels in females, which would seem to indicate female empathy is not just a socially learnt response.

---

Whatever model we settle on in the future needs to account for both biology and socialization.

Or as we going to continue to say women don't know their own mind, but a "feminist" version of this now? How's that any less patriarchal than the old days? Now, we say that people are socialized from birth to "know their place" and women have internalized all the "you can't do that" stuff.

And we continue to exalt the "male" way of doing things as the "true" way. e.g. I was telling an older guy, a friend of a friend who's in the "arts" crowd, who disliked video games (he quoted GTA as a typical game) about games which were popular with both genders, e.g. "The Sims". He sniffed, "A glorified dolls house". So, even from someone who believed himself totally enlightened, that's bias against things women like.

Reminds me of a discussion we had once in the DF boards, why do more males play dwarf fortress than females. "The game is inherently sexist" was one answer, after further debate that'd shifted to "if only we brought females up properly they'd love dwarf fortress as much as men".

17170
You need the BBC and its news section. A highly pleasing beacon of credability and integrity in an industry full of backstabbing, deviousness and corruption. You can be sure if they say its a spade, then its a spade. They legally HAVE to be politically neutral, which makes for some good reading/viewing. Thier current run on the Conservatives NHS reform is quite enlightening, and highlights the spin bullshit Cameron is spouting over it.
ABC and SBS in Australia fill the BBC role here, SBS is especially good for in-depth world news.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/

Lol, i just discovered the Daily Mail UK, consults long dead people for comments on new book releases :-

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The Smurfs creator, Belgian artist Peyo, told a Flemish paper: 'I disagree with his interpretation. It is between the grotesque and the not serious.'

EDIT: Ahh i checked other sources, and the quote was from Peyo's son, NOT Peyo himself, so this is a simple "mistake" from Daily Mail.

17171
Truean, great summation there. There's also sexism evident in how Rush mocks her for her youth ("college coed"), then later the conservative bloggers mock her for her age ("omg she's 30!"). Thus proving females can't win against sexist reporting, you're either too young or too old to be credible (youthful "bimbo" or "old hag", no in-between).

We can call this a "goldilocks" phenomena :D

except there's no "just right" age, since Sandra Fluke shows that you can be BOTH too young and too old at the same time :D

Ever heard a male attacked over their age? It's rare. Unless you're under 18 or over 70. I've certainly never seen a male attacked for BOTH being too old and too young at the same time.

17172
First off, no. That is a statement of what he has heard, not as statement of fact.

Secondly the very next sentence was saying he does not believe what he heard.

He used the whole thing as a point contradicting what I said, and since he say's it's true then not true, i want to know specifically how that contradicts what i said.

Or is it just a babbling non-sequiter then?

17173
ggamer said
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No, the reason is that, from what I have heard, the government has started forcing various catholic institutions to pay for various contraceptive medications, i.e. abortion and morning-after pills.

He stated this as fact. Where's the proof that this is the thing? Where did he hear this, i'd like to see the sources.

17174
More to the point, Catholic colleges are withholding medicine which was already covered by insurance plans paid for by student's school fees, based on the college administrations ideology.

Love how you phrase that to make it seem like the catholic schools are with holding medicine from dying african children.

No, the reason is that, from what I have heard, the government has started forcing various catholic institutions to pay for various contraceptive medications, i.e. abortion and morning-after pills.

Of course, that sounds like bullshit. If there's anything that people are adamant about, it's respect for religious beliefs, if you're a believer, and containment of religious beliefs, if you aren't. Plus, I doubt you could slip a measure like that past a republican majority congress.

That "dying african children" thing is a total straw man, i never said anything of the sort. They "withholding" stuff - fact. it's medicine - fact. Already paid for by students - fact. The withholding is based on the colleges ideology -fact.

There's nothing in my statement which plays on any emotions about "dying children". They paid for it, give them what they paid for and don't be jerks about it, the college doesn't own the students.

---

Citation for this from a reputable source about the morning after pill thing?

Googling "Obama morning after pill" gives links which all cite this story :

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/us/obama-backs-aides-stance-on-morning-after-pill.html

"Obama Endorses Decision to Limit Morning-After Pill"

17175
More to the point, Catholic colleges are withholding medicine which was already covered by insurance plans paid for by student's school fees, based on the college administrations ideology. And, then, those students turn to tax-payer funded free clinics for treatment because the college is withholding stuff.

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