301
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Bridge, lever and pressure plate logic
« on: December 15, 2012, 07:46:32 pm »
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302
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: river going through raised bridge
« on: December 15, 2012, 03:13:21 pm »
Botherit, I keep forgetting details that have to be mentioned...
The bridge itself is underground, shouldn't be any room for flow over it. The ramp up to the river cuts into the riverbed. This was put together while the river was frozen. Side diagram:
~ = water
_ = floor
^ = ramp
# = natural wall
| = bridge
Except, of course, that's how it should be, whereas what it actually is...
The bridge itself is underground, shouldn't be any room for flow over it. The ramp up to the river cuts into the riverbed. This was put together while the river was frozen. Side diagram:
~ = water
_ = floor
^ = ramp
# = natural wall
| = bridge
Code: [Select]
~~~~
__ _
|~#
__^_
Except, of course, that's how it should be, whereas what it actually is...
Code: [Select]
~~~~
__ _
~|~#
__^_
303
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Extreme newb here, lots of idlers with original 7
« on: December 15, 2012, 02:35:53 pm »
Don't forget that skills are one thing and enabled labors are another. Enable labors through v->select dwarf->p->l->enter-to-toggle-labors, other through Dwarf Therapist (third party utility for managing labors on all your dwarves.
304
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: river going through raised bridge
« on: December 15, 2012, 02:34:00 pm »
| = bridge
O = constructed wall
X = wall the construction of which was cancelled because the dwarves could not get to it
, = floor
# = natural wall
^ = up ramp to river
O = constructed wall
X = wall the construction of which was cancelled because the dwarves could not get to it
, = floor
# = natural wall
^ = up ramp to river
Code: [Select]
#####
,OX|^
,OO|^
,,,|^
,,,|^
#####
305
DF Gameplay Questions / river going through raised bridge
« on: December 15, 2012, 02:19:34 pm »
So I built a bridge, raised it, and verified it was raised by demonstrating that my dwarves could not build a wall between it and another wall.
Despite this fact, the river went right through it.
I can think of only two explanations:
A) The river dropped down a level and was, therefore, pressurized; could this push it through a raised bridge??
B) The bridge raises away from the river; honestly, though, I thought it acted... as a wall; can rivers flow through raised bridges if the bridge raises away from the river?
The bridge was only one tile thick/long, if that makes a difference to the pressure thing, but I thought it didn't matter how many tiles thick/long it is.
It cuts clear across the hallway, no gap, not even diagonal, such that it would definitely cut off the river if it were walls.
Should I try building it the other way, facing the river?
If that's necessary to block water, do I need another one facing away to protect against enemies or something, or will even firebreathing buildingdestroying enemies treat it the same from either side (providing it's one tile thick/long, so the center is under it even when raised)?
Despite this fact, the river went right through it.
I can think of only two explanations:
A) The river dropped down a level and was, therefore, pressurized; could this push it through a raised bridge??
B) The bridge raises away from the river; honestly, though, I thought it acted... as a wall; can rivers flow through raised bridges if the bridge raises away from the river?
The bridge was only one tile thick/long, if that makes a difference to the pressure thing, but I thought it didn't matter how many tiles thick/long it is.
It cuts clear across the hallway, no gap, not even diagonal, such that it would definitely cut off the river if it were walls.
Should I try building it the other way, facing the river?
If that's necessary to block water, do I need another one facing away to protect against enemies or something, or will even firebreathing buildingdestroying enemies treat it the same from either side (providing it's one tile thick/long, so the center is under it even when raised)?
306
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Bridge, lever and pressure plate logic
« on: December 15, 2012, 01:09:26 pm »
I guess then I'd need to convert the one signal to power logic, then use the power logic to convert back to signals, since the end result I want is to be able to lower/extend bridges on "on" signals from the initial pressure plate?
307
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Bridge, lever and pressure plate logic
« on: December 15, 2012, 12:24:10 pm »
That, then, brings me to...
2) Is there a way to reverse the mini latch linked in my first post, so as to have an "off"/"close" signal sent when a device is activated, then have it remain activated until manually reset, at which point it sends an "on"/"open" signal?
2) Is there a way to reverse the mini latch linked in my first post, so as to have an "off"/"close" signal sent when a device is activated, then have it remain activated until manually reset, at which point it sends an "on"/"open" signal?
308
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Bridge, lever and pressure plate logic
« on: December 15, 2012, 12:07:04 pm »
So, I'm trying to develop a complex fortress defense involving rerouting a river, giving multiple levels of control of it including the possibility of parts being triggered automatically via pressure plate but also of disabling that trigger for some of the parts.
Needless to say I'm all over the wiki now on mechanical contraptions, but there are a handful of things that are still not clear to me.
1) I understand pressure plates differentiate between "open" signals sent when triggered and "close" signals sent a little while after they're no longer triggered. Do "open" signals to a raised bridge raise it, close it or simply reverse the position from what it is? Do "close" signals do the opposite? What about retracting bridges? (Note: I see the design for a safer pressure plate latch here; as it uses a pressure plate, I'm curious how much control this gives me over which position bridges are in when one of these is triggered.)
Actually, 1 is all I can think of at the moment, but I know I'm going to have more questions, so I'll number them as they come.
Needless to say I'm all over the wiki now on mechanical contraptions, but there are a handful of things that are still not clear to me.
1) I understand pressure plates differentiate between "open" signals sent when triggered and "close" signals sent a little while after they're no longer triggered. Do "open" signals to a raised bridge raise it, close it or simply reverse the position from what it is? Do "close" signals do the opposite? What about retracting bridges? (Note: I see the design for a safer pressure plate latch here; as it uses a pressure plate, I'm curious how much control this gives me over which position bridges are in when one of these is triggered.)
Actually, 1 is all I can think of at the moment, but I know I'm going to have more questions, so I'll number them as they come.
309
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to make above-ground farms from below
« on: December 14, 2012, 08:27:20 pm »
The bigger question in my mind is, "does inside/outside make a difference?" I thought light affected dwarves and above/underground affected farming.
*wikis*
Apparently inside/outside affects weather, so hopefully they make it inside, so it keeps out rain. They keep out flows of water, so you'd think... but the wiki doesn't mention windows (or furniture in general, obviously) on the list of things that block outsideness.
For that matter, windows are furniture and have to sit on floor -- I'm not sure you can remove the floor from under them and have them stay by attachment to walls, like... walls do.
I guess it's worth a shot, but if it doesn't work that'll be too bad...
*wikis*
Apparently inside/outside affects weather, so hopefully they make it inside, so it keeps out rain. They keep out flows of water, so you'd think... but the wiki doesn't mention windows (or furniture in general, obviously) on the list of things that block outsideness.
For that matter, windows are furniture and have to sit on floor -- I'm not sure you can remove the floor from under them and have them stay by attachment to walls, like... walls do.
I guess it's worth a shot, but if it doesn't work that'll be too bad...
310
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Spontaneous Combustion
« on: December 14, 2012, 07:57:13 pm »I attempted to put the save on DFFD but the folder is 331MBBuiltin Windoze zip, or 7Zip the Holy Arrows of Squishing?
311
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to make above-ground farms from below
« on: December 14, 2012, 07:44:20 pm »
*smacks forhead* Coolside, you're a genius...
w = window, all else as in my previous post (but this works whether you use windows or walls)
step 2 -- becomes optional, depending entirely on how zippy your window-constructors are
step 3:
step 4:
This requires z-2 not have started out mined out, otherwise you won't be able to do the alternate step 4 so you won't be able to remove the floor under z-1 except by channelling out one column/row at a time as in my previous post.
Also... would it be bad forum ettiquette to cross-post this at the thread I have going about uses for windows?
w = window, all else as in my previous post (but this works whether you use windows or walls)
step 2 -- becomes optional, depending entirely on how zippy your window-constructors are
step 3:
Code: [Select]
z-1
######
#wwwX#
#wwwX#
#wwwX#
######step 4:
Code: [Select]
z-2
######
#^^^X#
#^^^X#
#^^^X#
######This requires z-2 not have started out mined out, otherwise you won't be able to do the alternate step 4 so you won't be able to remove the floor under z-1 except by channelling out one column/row at a time as in my previous post.
Also... would it be bad forum ettiquette to cross-post this at the thread I have going about uses for windows?
312
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: windows, waterfalls and other pretty things
« on: December 14, 2012, 07:38:37 pm »Gems: can't build with 'em in the game that I know of, but technically they're rocks, and apparently the preferred use is prettying up things.too-pretty-to-build-with rocks
I don't know what you're talking about
Not to say the other rocks aren't pretty or whatever. Just not too pretty to build with. Or if that's not the issue I want to know why I can't make a wall out of diamonds -- after all, we've all seen Quietust's signature about the floodgate made of a couple cat bones, so it can't be the feasibility.
ETA: Anyone know if this would work, or can you not remove the floor under windows? http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120456.msg3875331#msg3875331
313
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Site Finder Clarification Needed
« on: December 14, 2012, 07:24:01 pm »
It's a pity some of us never manage to find a civ that has WAR with the other civs when we embark.
314
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to make above-ground farms from below
« on: December 14, 2012, 07:22:00 pm »
Hmmm... way I would have done this is more thusly:
, = soil floor
+ = wall top
O = constructed wall
# = natural wall
^ = carve up ramp here
_ = channel here
z = deramp here
X = stairs
start:
step 1:
step 2 (do this fast, between steps 1 and 2 the surface is accessible):
step 3:
step 4:
repeat steps 3 and 4 till the shaft is crossed
step 5:
end result
It winds up the same (note that my preference for all stairs being up/down is irrelevant), but doesn't involve funky stair logic, at the expense that a path will be briefly opened to the surface (though ironically you do not need the mining burrow to include the surface). Also note that z-2 could start the same as it ends, already mined out, in which case you don't have to do step 5 of deramping it once you get down there; the last step is shown more to give an idea how one could handle channelling a longer vertical shaft and removing the ramps when it hits bottom, wherever bottom is for you.
I do understand your design is necessary when one wants to have absolutely no path to the surface at any point, however.
I may have to try this on an embark with actual soil a couple z levels down; I typically give up on above-ground farming because of little actual soil.
, = soil floor
+ = wall top
O = constructed wall
# = natural wall
^ = carve up ramp here
_ = channel here
z = deramp here
X = stairs
start:
Code: [Select]
z+0
,,,,,,
,,,,,,
,,,,,,
,,,,,,
,,,,,,Code: [Select]
z-1
######
####X#
####X#
####X#
######Code: [Select]
z-2
######
####X#
####X#
####X#
######step 1:
Code: [Select]
z-1
######
#^^^X#
#^^^X#
#^^^X#
######step 2 (do this fast, between steps 1 and 2 the surface is accessible):
Code: [Select]
z-1
######
#zzzX#
#zzzX#
#zzzX#
######step 3:
Code: [Select]
z-1
######
#_,,X#
#_,,X#
#_,,X#
######step 4:
Code: [Select]
z-1
######
#O,,X#
#O,,X#
#O,,X#
######repeat steps 3 and 4 till the shaft is crossed
step 5:
Code: [Select]
z-2
######
#zzzX#
#zzzX#
#zzzX#
######end result
Code: [Select]
z+0
,,,,,,
,+++,,
,+++,,
,+++,,
,,,,,,
Code: [Select]
z-1
######
#OOOX#
#OOOX#
#OOOX#
######Code: [Select]
z-2
######
#,,,X#
#,,,X#
#,,,X#
######It winds up the same (note that my preference for all stairs being up/down is irrelevant), but doesn't involve funky stair logic, at the expense that a path will be briefly opened to the surface (though ironically you do not need the mining burrow to include the surface). Also note that z-2 could start the same as it ends, already mined out, in which case you don't have to do step 5 of deramping it once you get down there; the last step is shown more to give an idea how one could handle channelling a longer vertical shaft and removing the ramps when it hits bottom, wherever bottom is for you.
I do understand your design is necessary when one wants to have absolutely no path to the surface at any point, however.
I may have to try this on an embark with actual soil a couple z levels down; I typically give up on above-ground farming because of little actual soil.
315
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: windows, waterfalls and other pretty things
« on: December 14, 2012, 06:42:04 pm »
Ooo, I like that idea, if it works (and I'd expect it to, if windows are seethrough in terms of other things).
Vampire detection, potential increased room value (at least if your gems are more valuable than your engravings you could put on the wall you remove for the window -- anybody got !!science!! on how those compare?), happy thoughts, and a way to use all those too-pretty-to-build-with rocks you dig up... While it doesn't seem as novel and exciting as throwing together waterfalls and giant walls of windows, this may just be one of the most effective in-game use of gems/windows you can come up with.
Of course, I kinda like this whole thread. But then, I like a lot of this forum. It's Bay 12 and the overseers of arm_ok's insane little exilees, after all.
Vampire detection, potential increased room value (at least if your gems are more valuable than your engravings you could put on the wall you remove for the window -- anybody got !!science!! on how those compare?), happy thoughts, and a way to use all those too-pretty-to-build-with rocks you dig up... While it doesn't seem as novel and exciting as throwing together waterfalls and giant walls of windows, this may just be one of the most effective in-game use of gems/windows you can come up with.
Of course, I kinda like this whole thread. But then, I like a lot of this forum. It's Bay 12 and the overseers of arm_ok's insane little exilees, after all.