When he created the universe, he set it up knowing exactly what everyone would do, and what exactly would for its whole history (assuming that you believe he is omniscient that is). He did this in the exact same way when you type up a program and tell it to print: "Hello World" if X is 10, and you set X to 10, then it will print "Hello World", just like you knew it would.
Omniscient means knowing everything that is knowable, if the future is not knowable then he cant know it, but is still omniscient
Sure, you "chose" to do whatever you are going to do, just like the program "chose" to print "Hello World".
Yes, you are billions of times more complex then a program like that, but since god is omniscient, it doesn't matter how complex you are.
Wrong, because while he knows what we ?"pick" we make the choice, yes saturation affect it, free will dose not mean your choice cant be influenced, it just means you GET to decide a path, not that you have nothing blocking it
I have freedom in U.s it don't mean I can do what ever dose it?
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But he did. When he was creating the universe, he looked at it, and knew that in 2012 you were going to tap dance. He could have slightly altered how he created the universe, or slightly changed any of his interventions (which assuming he was omniscient, he also knew what he was going to do even before he created the universe) and could have easily stopped you from tap dancing if he wanted to.
wrong again, we don't know if that can or can not be known, and even then your not taking in to acount that he lets us pick, so yes our things our influenced, by things God lets happen, but they happen by free will and laws that where set
again free will never ever says you will never have anything block it, just that you have control of your body, you are in control, God dont say "Go tap dance" and makes you.
If he doesn't know everything all the time, then he isn't omniscient.
It doesn't matter if its impossible to know, if he doesn't know it anyways then he isn't omniscient. Similarly, if he chooses not to know everything, while he has the potential to be omniscient, then he really isn't.
check definition of omniscient
2. having very great or seemingly unlimited knowledge
thats one
possessed of universal or complete knowledge
this all assumes that the future is knowledge before ti happens, if it is not, then he don't have to, if time dose change around and can be altar, if we can still make all choices then he can know what we do, and if we happen to changed it still know what we do as he knows everything, we humans cant wrap our heads around it but that's the idea
How can you or I begun to know what it is?
And even then your assuming if he "desired" to change it he would, he dose not because its FREE will,. if he did change thew future like you said, so that it did not happen that would not be free will
Just because he can watch every move we take dose NOT mean it was not our choice to make
I see God as more of watching over time in this regard yes he knows what happens, but becuse he can go to the point in time where we, of our own free will made the choice
Was it affected by things? yes but we never said 100% total nothing will get in the way
just free will, your free to make up your mind based on whats going on rather then having to do what some computer or God says.
Your assuming when God made the universe he went forward in time and said "so that happen and so I'm going to make this world instead of another" (We have no proof making another one with free will would do anything)
Your assuming also that God can even
your assuming if God initiated it a diffident way, him doing that is what ends up picking what we do, I believe he mad the unverse, and WE get to pick
He may of made 50 worlds
and each one is a blank slate, nothing about picking world one form him means that it will happen
your also assuming God controls the future
Can he do these things? could he mess with it? YES, but the idea is he has giving us free will and so dose not do these things
A. "set up" the future in a diffident away, if we do have free will and he dont get in our way of it then how CAN he set it up? he lets us pick
He is all powerful and all knowing, but that means knowin all that CAN be known, and doing all that CAN be done.
Never says what CAN be known and done and not.
Your first few sentences in this quote are a bit hard to read, and so I might be getting the meaning wrong.
God doesn't control the future. He made the universe, and set everything into motion, the physical laws (that he created) control the future. But he doesn't need to control it to have chosen exactly how it would turn out when he created it.
Knowing what exactly what will happen isn't a active choice on his part. It is done as long as he is omniscient.
FAKEEDIT: Gah, beaten by telgin.
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I've seen it time and time again you keep putting the parts that we believe and say "don't count, its only in the bible" but have no problems taking other parts in the bible and using them?
We believe God is OMNISCIENT, we cant even begun to know what that means, the term we use is he knows all that can be known, for all we know he may know more, it may be possible for him to know every action we take anywhere anytime, multilevel times throughout with diffident actions
we cant say "oh he knows this" "but God must know the furthest" "but God can change it so this happens" etc
because we don't know how God did it, if God made the universe where the way it worked was future was NOT set in stone, maybe he can see all actions we can ever take, and the one we will take etc will be "right" since the all happen
WE can explain it, just like we cant explain the big bang very well, or many other things
we cant explain a lot about either side, it dont make them wrong, it dont mean they are not valid, we just are not at the level of compassion needed
The only thing we are trying to do is to show you that the Bible is a heap of contradictory randomness, and that its contents are therefore not allowed to be used to prove anything at all.
But its not, if you take all the bible says instead of allowing this part and that part only it makes sense for as far as we can understand, misquotes and ironing verses is all I've seen
If your talking as if MY God is real then read the bible FULL dont say "well cant use that" then use two others to claim heap of contradictory randomness, you will not find one that cant be explained by
A. error of man
B. your reading of it
for exsample the bible says we have free will, but you deny that, you ASSUMED free will cant exist with omniscience, with the very idea of omniscience is knowing everything even what actions we would take WITH OUR free will, that IS free will
but you deny that becuse it dont work
either take the bible as it says
A. We have free will
B. God is omniscience (what was the original world in the real rouge? was it even close to the same word? an example they did not have the term bird back then, which is why bats are labled as birds cause the closest translation was "flying things"
An example, some definitions say appeared,others say whats ONLY knowable, so whats knowable? the future? we dont know.
is our actions? in the sense he knows every single one we could pick, and maybe even some how they all get picked
WE DON'T KNOW
Just like we don't know what is on the other side of a black hole, what happens when you go fatser then the speed of light (if you can) or if we can time travel, this in no way makes science "wrong" no way makes it heap of contradictory randomnes dose it?
