Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: Wolfy on December 20, 2012, 08:49:06 pm

"lost hope in me"
What do you hope for in a believer? I admit I may not be right, I admit you may be right

What more can you hope for?
You ask me a question and I answer them and I dont give you the answer you want? or what?

your interpretation of the scriptures is too literal, too detached from my interpretation of facts, that i don't know how to talk with you. i ask you one question and you reply to a different one. we don't use the same dictionary and our discussion would develop into a semantic one rather than morals\metaphysics

I could not help but notice you use "interrelation for me and "facts" for you...

I cant ask you questions but you can ask me?

Semantics  are not facts 9in the sense of they are not "right" we each could reach  diffident thing of a sentence

How ever I want to point out, almost none of my things have been literal, i dont belive the fruitis a furit per say, i dont belive sin causes you to die, I don't believe it took 7 days for the world to be made, in fact show me one place I've used it "litarly"
All of my post have been giving what I think happens and why it happens based on the books, very little of it is "litral" the bible is not that, you cant use it that way, but your trying to make it seem like I am, so since your saying I am show me how I am as I disagree, in fact I'd go far as to say if the book is meant to be taken literal then I'm screwed, as its impresive how much of it I dont.

"lost hope in me"
What do you hope for in a believer? I admit I may not be right, I admit you may be right

What more can you hope for?
You ask me a question and I answer them and I dont give you the answer you want? or what?

Statement 0 (straight from the Bible): God exists.
Statement 1 (also from the Bible): God is omniscient.
Statement 2 (also from the Bible): God is omnipotent.
Statement 3 (also from the Bible): God created the universe.
Statement 4 (concluded from 1 and 3): When God created the universe, God was omniscient.
Statement 5 (specialization of 1): God knows the past, present and future of every imaginable universe.
Statement 6 (specialization of 2): God could have created every imaginable universe.
Statement 7 (concluded from 3, 4 and our existence): From all the universes God could create, God created this one.
Statement 8 (concluded from 5, 6 and 7): God knowingly chose to create this universe so this past, present and future would happen.
Statement 9 (concluded from : God decided all our actions.
Statement 10 (concluded from 9): We have no free will.

Wrong, once again, you misuse the bible
Statement 7 is where you fail most, where at all dose it say he did not create them all? and only made ours?

You also assume that god knowing of all possible universes, means ours is premeditated, for all we know its not, we have free will, he dose not decide, he just can see "past" this universe, and past this "derision" if you will and see all choices we ever could make, it dont mean he knows we will make this one or that one, or if he dose, it dont mean he makes us pick it
we still pick it

Even if there is one unversed, it don't mean he picks because nothing says he dont see all the pathways and we pick which ever we want, heck there could be an ifnite amount of paths and he could still see them all



An example, my mom KNEW I would pick the new guitar, cause she knows me so well, she knew before it happen, and saw it coming, dose that mean she picked for me? NO

We still pick the ones we make, its like watching a play. I may know the lines and all , it don't mean the guys in the show  did not pick choices there.

being all seeing and all knowing don't mean he controls it at all it just means he knows and see

heck it could be like time travel, he sees the future, say a caveman goes in to the future and sees GW become president, it dont mean he picks for us

Since you say that no-one knows if he exists, you concede that there is no evidence for God.
In that case, why do people know about him? Who was the first person to believe in God, and why did he start believing? Since there is no evidence, he must have made it all up.

this logic fails so bad
No one knew at one time if the world was round, why did people believe it was not? who was the first person to think it? and why did thet? since there is no evinced of it (to them back then) it must be made up
Correct? of course not.

Just because you cant prove something dont mean its made up

We cant prove that there is life on other planets
Why do people know about life on other planets? who was the first person to? and why?
no evinced? made up

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was the dark age, and we still think that illness is caused by demons entering the body. That sickness is our earthy punishment for our crimes against superman. That disease is caused by sin, and not tiny pathogens! Fuck washing your hands, unless it is in a basin of holy water! The common cold turns up most often in winter because that is clearly when people most often partake in devil worship, right?
Are earthquakes caused by homosexuals and school shootings caused by secularism too?

Oh stop it, I'm being polite to you, do the same to me
I have not done anything to say "your wrong"
I've not insulted you, I'm trying to nicely talk of our beliefs, please do the same

I'm not saying demons cause it, I'm saying (if you need it in science terms) when in the garden of eden, we could not get sick, we were immune to everything, sin caused us to become uimmune, when they eat the fruit, they gained life AND death, AND death, eating that furit gave us life and death and so we die on this earth only to be united after death with God and the way it used to be, no more plague, no more sickness, no more sin.
I dont belive "sin" in of it self kills, it allows for it
A man who gets killed is no more a sinner then you or I
We all sin, they are not caused by Satan, us humans of our own free will keep on sinning.

"Science doesn't exactly 'prove' anything because that doesn't leave room for refinement, but don't be mistaken into thinking that makes it in any way subjective. In that way I can never prove that a virus is causing your cold, but I can say that in every case ever of ever having a cold anywhere ever, this virus has been there, showing correlation, and I can show what it does to cause the cold, showing causation. I can objectively say that the virus caused the cold.
You just don't have that. You don't have certainty. You don't have reliability. All you have is wishful thinking and cognitive bias."
But you dont either, you dont have proof all "miracles, can be explained, you don't have proof there is no par dice, and here is the thing I'm not asking for  proof 9as in expecting to get it cause I know you cant give it, neither can I)

Did something much better, let my guys fight the vampire, let them all be beaten an inch of their life, swoop in kill vamp, then kill them, and drink his blood, but hit a horse by hitting attack to fast.... hoooooovvvvveeeees

See why do you need to let the child do their own thing and sometimes get hurt for it? Because you want them to know better.
And why do you want them to know better? Because you won't always be around to protect them, so they need to be ready for that day.

Does god let us suffer so that we are ready for a time when he isn't there and things get worse?

No, he dose it so we can use our free will, he dont want to be the God who dose everything for us, tells us everything to do and we blindly follow him, he wants us to come to him with love and having our own minds, and our own things

See my parents did it, they are still here, they can still help me but they dont do everything for me, that's what God dose, forever, God's not going anywhere, we are just getting our free will and learning how to be our selfs

My parents will help when I need it, but they are letting me be my own person because a life where someone else dose everything for you is not living, even you I think agree, or would you rathher the goverment tell you what to do, who you can marry, who you date and what you say?


HE lets us choose, be with him or not, would you rather him not let you pick?


"yes, because you have to prepare them for the shitty life the creator laid out for them. they have to cope with suffering, because there will be no paradise afterwards"

You can belive that and it will be true for you, I just hope you don't end up regretting it

See? God lets you pick, would you rather he force you?

Your assuming there is an end, why assume that?
Your also assuming we will have a feeling of boredom, what if you could do the same stuff over and over not get bored still have fun?
You may think now "I don't want that" but you wont mind then soooo like a kid who says he dont want to like girls, will soon change their minds

so paradise was the garden of eden? fuck, that's boring. adam and eve were in paradise and they manage to fuck up quite early, do the nice people that go to paradise also fuck up from time to time? after all they have all the eternity to do it

you don't even know what the Garden of Edan was, hell if we got you playing Dwarf fortress (Assuming you play it) when you where young enough you would think the same thing of DF, dose that mean you should not play DF now?

You have to stop acting like what you like and dislike now is what you will like then or even a decade form now.

and why am i paying for the sin(eating an apple is a sin?) of a couple of cavemen? how is that moral?

Becuse of free will, we pay because we STILL sin. Once you stop sin you can then come talk to me about what you "deserve"

and god made the rules, if we can fuck up, it's because god made it so we could fuck up, and we do fuck up bigtime. it's not our fault though, it's god's.

Wrong, God gave you free will, if a parent gives you a choice of studying or not, whose fault is it in the end? the kids for not picking, God choices not to force you to do anything

He lets you make your own choices and as such blame is on you.

You act like how boring it would be there, how boring would it be if God just made us do good all the time? not have free will?

oh, but you'll like it after you become a potato

And I'm sure your like a short life when your 80... not

History can show, young guys? want to live dont worry bout Tommy, as you grow older and mature your mind set will carnage, your no longer living for the now

Maybe that's why God has us wait here, so when we do go there we go of our own free will reddy for it instead of longing for this life.

fuck afterlife. what is going into the afterlife? your soul? what the fuck is your soul? who are you? your memories? your personality? what parts of your mind would have to be erased so you could bear with eternity? what would need to be inserted so you could understand all that bullshit that is beyond human understanding? would you still be the same person after all that? and if not, why would you care that an entity tangentially related to you gets into a place that you wouldn't even find pleasant if it was actually you in there?

How can you come to all of this? first off, a baby cant understand the wonders of sex, dose that mean you cant enjoy it when your older?
I mean yes we "changed a lot" but to me its the same as a kid to an adult, compare me as a kid, to a teen to an adult, its like I'm a freaking sepreate species

a person form the start of time, has no idea what now day music is, in fact it would sound WRONG to them, heck chords did not even exist, dose that mean music cant change?

As long as you LIKE it at that point in time I don't see a problbem, my likes change here right now a lot as well, and they will change more, just becuse one day I will like running (hahah yeah right) dont mean that when I do its not me

Of course the ideas of souls is thats what makes you, you in the first place... so the point is moot.

As for what goes, I to often wonder, and I do fear the idea of not being able to have  a "love" (wifes and husbands will not be wifes and husbands anymore) but it sounds nice when you think bout it, no more pain, there is no need for a wife or husband, you alredy had kids, you are not going anywhere, and you will know peace...


But yeah the unknown parts do scare me

Cant means cant, wont means you could but dont

put it this way i cant play the ps3 as i dont have one
i wont play the 360 thats right here

I'm saying it wont happen, it can happen, cant would be if it was not possible what so ever, it is possible, just like its possible I win the loto. would you say its fair for me to say i wont win the lato?