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Messages - BoredVirulence

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181
DF General Discussion / Re: A simple question: why Urist "Mc"?
« on: January 07, 2015, 09:31:03 am »
What was the learning curve thread? I presume it was some kind of old joke about DF having a steep learning curve, or something similar.

GavJ started a thread about how DF actually has a shallow learning curve because science, then a bunch of people went well yeah, but we don't actually say that because language, then it kind of just got stuck in an infinite loop until Toady pulled the plug 50 pages later or so. It was beautiful and amazing and quite silly.

To add to that, anybody is threatening a new learning-curve thread (or GavJ-debate, as I prefer to remember it) whenever they ask a semi-technical question, receive an answer that might not be satisfying, and then continue with, "I see your point, but, REASONS!"

Not a very widely used trope in the places where "Mc" or "Mac" names originated (Scotland and Ireland). It mostly seems to belong to certain aspects of US pop culture. A trope is still a trope even if not used much, but it is not a common trope.

Does anybody know what the origins of that trope are? Obviously characters with Scottish/Irish ancestry, or just using a "mc" name to imitate a Scotsman (silly names like Hamish McHaggis) do not count.

And, to me, this appeared to be the deflection point keeping the thread alive. You accepted the answer, but deflected it.

However I must add that I don't think you intended to pull a GavJ-debate on us, or that this is even one, but from a first read it looked pretty similar. I'm going to be very explicit, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but I thought it might help the situation if you could see the similarities.

And now that I've thoroughly made an ass of myself, I will add I have nothing to add on the origin of the trope.

182
Except when I tested with minecart grinders (before the science was done), and gas chambers. Those 2 forts suffered...
Gas chambers? What kind of gas?
yea that's what I'm wondering. It sounds like fun, that's for sure.
Syndrome or magma mist most like.
I hate to ruin everyones fun, it was a custom syndrome causing liquid modded in. I planned to make it sufficiently difficult to acquire, such as from an exotic plant.
The liquid was heat activated, and it would be either dumped, or produced, in a lockable hallway. When magma was pumped below the floor, the heat would rise, and make the liquid boil. Since it was on contact, everything became a geyser of blood instantly. It was very lethal, and dangerous to handle, if only it had been vanilla...

If some was spilled, it would contaminate dwarves socks. Dwarven body heat would activate it a few minutes later, usually when they were throwing a party in the dining hall...

I had previously tested a theory about a floor grate, some contaminants, and flowing water, but the contaminant wouldn't go through the floor grate.
Let me see if I can find the thread...
Here it is

183
Ummm, 3x3 rooms, smoothed for all!
I always have some variety in booze.
I have an intricate defense system that is very difficult to penetrate.

To be fair, I'm not a bad overseer, I'm most certainly quite neutral. My dwarves live comfortable at best, and rarely suffer. I'm pretty consistent with that...
Except when I tested with minecart grinders (before the science was done), and gas chambers. Those 2 forts suffered...

184
DF General Discussion / Re: 1000 Dwarves
« on: December 12, 2014, 12:28:45 am »
I've played with 500 dwarves. Apart from the difficulty of getting the food industry started, it was quite slow. Not unenjoyable on a small embark, more dwarves means more labor, so less fps is more manageable. Clothes is also an issue, but if you can get the food, you're set. I recommend bringing at least 100 seeds, maybe as much as 250. I wasted all of my points (which I vastly increased) on armor / weapons (I was invading a zombie infested area).

185
DF Suggestions / Re: Request for a new type (or types) of stone
« on: December 10, 2014, 11:54:10 pm »
I like this idea.
As far as naming, it should either be asbestos, or the archaic variant. There is no reason to rename it because some people don't like asbestos. Its based on a real mineral, keep it real.

Right now, we couldn't implement any sickness, so it would have no negatives. When Toady gets to long term sicknesses, we can add it for asbestos as well as lead, or any other hazard, so no special treatment (which would be gimmicky).

Unfortunately, right now fireproof isn't helpful. I've done testing, but at least with firebreath and fireballs, it bypasses the clothing layer all together. That was with nethercap style, constant temperature clothing. A wildfire might be different. Its something that would be helpful in the long term, but useless now. Asbestos would, currently, only serve as variety. I see no reason to not have this, other than some people being unable to cope with their current preconceived notions. Sure, asbestos says industrial age to me, but so does iron and steel.

186
DF Suggestions / Re: Random Injury
« on: December 10, 2014, 03:55:54 pm »
I like this suggestion. Sure, you said random, but you really meant weighted against personality, and attributes, the dwarf fortress way.

It would really help cull the weak. It would also make you more inclined to screen your military. Nothing worse than losing your fortress because your legendary swords dwarf tripped, and fell on his own sword, in his might charge to defeat the goblin scum.

I would also like to see the chances be greater for children, they're always doing stupid things before they realize their stupid (I myself nearly broke an ankle at a very young age because I liked jumping off stuff. I also tried to build a parachute, and nearly jumped out my window, onto a vertical driveway).

Of course, I do agree that there should be some way to prevent it, and I think that's the limiting factor about when it would implemented. Do we offer woodcutter training courses, to improve safety? Force them to work in pairs, so they always have someone their to correct them? Have nobles that institute fines on dwarves who fail to follow established safety routines? How can we define these routines? Can dwarves actually learn from their mistakes? Daycare (Real daycare) for the kids while they are a danger to themselves and others?..

It seems complicated. Maybe we should, for now, just be less careful in fortress design?..

187
The weapons stats are based on what it can do. A steel sword can do all of those things I described (well, maybe). Its stats have nothing to do with what is smart in a fight. So just because to competent warriors fighting each other wouldn't normally do a full swing (which they would do occasionally), doesn't mean that a steel sword should only ever produce cuts and not break bones. Even a small stab, or a short swing, would fracture bones occasionally, if you're penetrating to the flesh, then your bones are going to see some damage (unless its a purposeful shallow slice).

Counter point. What of an armed assailant attacking unarmed, and unarmored, civilians? There is little reason to be cautious, so full swings will be used more often. A steel sword can most certainly cut a mans arms off, as he raises them to defend himself. The stats of the sword reflect this. If there is a bug anywhere, it should be to make short swings used more often, and full swings less often, but I think that's already modeled in game? The numbers are probably a little off, and it would be nice to see a community overhaul of the raws, adjusting things, but I would not say the numbers are far off.

If powerful strikes are used to aggressively in combat, I would support a tweak to that. Ideally, somehow influenceable by the raws so that individuals could tweak their dwarves to have the appropriate amount of restraint in combat they deem necessary. We can argue about the frequency at which bones will break with shorter swings, or the frequency that full swings would be used, maybe swords do break bones too often, but its not because the sword is modeled incorrectly, maybe combat needs a tweak?

(And here I think we've finally agreed. You're arguing breaking occurs too often, I argued a sword is very, very capable at break bones often, and the argument has since veered towards how combat is handled.)

I think the only way to solve it now is for someone to create Historical Dwarven Martial Arts, get many practitioners, stage mock-up battles, and once skill converges on a true fighting style, we take the frequency of different attacks used by those practitioners, and try and model that in game. Or we could use a historical analog, but that seems less dwarfy to me...

188
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Making axles and gear assemblies impassable
« on: December 10, 2014, 12:06:55 pm »
Although I think thieves can still pick the lock....
Would it take them some time to pick the lock or could they walk straight through them as if it wasn't locked?

I think it takes some time, but not a lot. I admit, I'm unsure. They may not even be able to pick the lock, being elevated.
Doors are best used as a delay, so that some urist can pull the lever securing a bridge further in. However, if its just a thief, then you wouldn't have much warning without guard dogs, so that's something to consider. Its also worth considering you have to reclaim the door before you can lock it again, by having one of your dwarves walk through it.

Also, I don't think it would solve your current problem, but its always a nice trick to have. I personally use a series of bridges and doors as a tiered defense, although I only use this trick for outdoor bunkers, or for quick defense in the caverns. The trick also works for placing it at a diagonal:
Code: [Select]
# ##
##┼#
# ##

189
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Making axles and gear assemblies impassable
« on: December 10, 2014, 11:18:59 am »
they can destroy lockd doors...

Technically, if you build the door at the top of a ramp, they can't be on the same z-level, and thus can't attack it. Same with hatches (with enemies below). Its a little known one, and its very useful as "hidden" doors to the outside. Although I think thieves can still pick the lock....

190
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: What does it take to MAX Dwarf Fortress?
« on: December 10, 2014, 11:13:16 am »
Actually, a virtual machine CAN coerce an executable into doing something else. It requires detailed knowledge of the assembly though. Once a certain function is hit, you can track that with the instruction pointer, have the virtual machine run its own set of functions (to replace that function), set the instruction pointer to the end of the function. As I said before, its a hack, it requires knowledge of the assembly, and it would require huge memory mapping efforts after every release, which isn't terribly different from DF hack, except the scale would be much worse.

... One clear candidate for a separate thread is the calculations for events external to the fortress (at least in fortess mode) since they have a very small interaction with the fortress itself (probably only diplomat/liason reports) and thus should have a limited need for multiple access protection and separation, another one is graphics, a third one is equipment wear, and a fourth is liquid flow and temperature calculations (there are probably others as well)...

Your suggestion...
Although graphics are already multithreaded. Certainly the active world is a good candidate, I never particularly agreed with equipment wear. Pathfinding, liquids, and temperatures could be done, they would just use, an already shared resource, the map. Of course it doesn't prevent all issues, there would need to be protection to prevent data races, but it seems we already have a lot of those problems with dwarves not checking their path through flowing water. And how amusing would it be to see a dwarf try and path through a hallway, only to find the path was blocked by a wall, and force him to recalculate?

Having worked with multithreading, you can and will run into those issues you mentioned, but sometimes it is actually simple enough.

191
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Items never get smelted
« on: December 09, 2014, 06:41:15 pm »
Metal items do not, except rare circumstances, wear out. Thats not the question, hes asking about melting an item someone is wearing. English, isn't it fun? Specifically, we're confusing 1 and 4.

I don't know why you had to be so demeaning about it. I'm aware of what he is asking, that doesn't mean I didn't have a comment or question of my own.

I don't think any of us needed a definition for wear.
I disagree:


Alright. Thanks.

Followup question: Does designating a worn item for melting trigger a soldier to drop and replace it?
Or would I have to do this manually by messing around with the equipment-screen?
I don't think metal stuff actually gets worn, because the only way something gets worn out is by natural wearing, which doesn't happen to metal stuff AFAIK, and fire. Now, most metal things can't be set on fire.
Metal doesn't get worn unless you put them in refuse stockpiles (even though it must take an eternity) or you are in a sewer in adventure mode.


This is obvious confusion. Not that anyone is confused with the definition, they simply picked the wrong one.
And Nayar answered your question, if you implied that your armor takes damage after a fight.

192
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Items never get smelted
« on: December 09, 2014, 05:18:52 pm »
Metal items do not, except rare circumstances, wear out. Thats not the question, hes asking about melting an item someone is wearing. English, isn't it fun? Specifically, we're confusing 1 and 4.

193
Just wanted to note that this has been derailed for the last page and a half or so.
And it will continue to do so unless the OP locks the thread
Or we can get back on topic. Which I would do, but I have nothing to add to that conversation. Although, I admit, I think this topic has largely been exhausted.

194
While a strong man could cut through bone with a very strong sword if it was laid down on the ground, doing so against a moving enemy while keeping the strikes short to increase speed and decrease fatigue and strike recovery time is a different story...
An average man with a decent steel sword can cut someone's arm off without it being secured to a target (Nearly free floating, inertia is the only thing providing resistance), if the arm is unarmored, and the swing is decent. It doesn't need all of the power he can muster, a full swing will generate enough momentum. It wouldn't fatigue him more than any other full swing. Bone isn't that strong, at least most aren't.
It is worth noting that since the target is nearly free floating, and inertia is what is providing resistance to the swords movement, the sword would require a good deal of momentum. Hence, a full swing is certainly needed.

... Swords were also susceptible to breaking or jamming in wounds if they dug in too deeply. A poorly executed, strong cut against bone where the flat hit the bone would often break the sword. Even good warriors often broke swords in battle - Richard I of England broke one just pushing someone aside with the flat...
Most were iron swords too. Steel swords had a remarkable ability to not break. Reconstructed Ulfberht blades (rare steel sword) have shown the ability to stab directly into wooden shields, and bend rather than break. However, you do bring up a point, because most swords were crappy iron, they were likely instructed to be more careful, and that tradition would have continued even with steel swords occasionally present. Its also worth noting that while those blades are believed to be reconstructed in an authentic manner, its still possible they don't reflect the nature of the sword. Either way, right now we are talking about steel swords (Or, I thought we were).

... It is likely that the horse cut by the macuahuitl was sawn in half rather than being sliced with a single blow. A great sword was NOT sharper than a macuahuitl - obsidian edges are usually better at cutting that metal ones - but it was stronger and less likely to chip and break.
Yeah, those accounts are certainly somewhat false, and they were definitely partially sawed through. While obsidian is sharper than a steel sword, it won't hold its edge. The moment it touches bone, it will snap, and it will be just the wooden club breaking the bone. A great sword has an advantage, if its steel, it won't break. The macuahuitl probably needed to saw through the horse because it lost much of its cutting power half way through. I do believe that this scenario would be very dependent on a high quality steel great sword, wielded by a very strong man, some luck, and maybe an elephant with a bone condition. It may not even be plausible, but to consider it ridiculous is an overstatement.

195
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: What does it take to MAX Dwarf Fortress?
« on: December 09, 2014, 02:37:07 pm »
It would probably be better if the problem was attacked at the root, i.e. if DF itself was redesigned to be/support multithreaded. One clear candidate for a separate thread is the calculations for events external to the fortress (at least in fortess mode) since they have a very small interaction with the fortress itself (probably only diplomat/liason reports) and thus should have a limited need for multiple access protection and separation, another one is graphics, a third one is equipment wear, and a fourth is liquid flow and temperature calculations (there are probably others as well).
I doubt a GPU would be of much help for most of DF, since GPUs are very good at doing a very narrow range of repetitive tasks really fast, but are quite poor for general computing. There is, after all, a reason CPUs aren't just replaced by GPUs.
Another problem with GPUs is that they are not nearly as standardized as CPUs are, so you may end up with separate binaries for separate GPU configurations.
I would also suspect virtualization will slow things down rather than speeding them up, since emulation carries an overhead cost. If there is something that a virtualization improves, it can probably be improved more and better if the corresponding change was made in DF itself (but if the virtualization was targeted to a specific architecture, it might do tricks unsuitable for a general solution).

Of course the best solution would be for DF itself to be optimized, but thats not happening any time soon. I've done quite a bit of thought, and there are a lot of calculations that can be done on the GPU for a great gain. All map calculations for instance. The CPU can't efficiently do calculations on the map, because not only does it iterate through every tile for temperature, it also iterates through many tiles to calculate flow, as well as probably thousands of iterations for pathfinding. On the GPU, it could run a single iteration for all tiles for temperature, a single iteration for all flow. Pathfinding is more complex, but it could run those iterations in parallel, essentially meaning it only iterates for a single path, but the largest path. Offloading those calculations onto the GPU would be very efficient. Also, the GPU wouldn't have the issue of caching part of the map, it could store all of the map data, so there is less memory being manipulated constantly.

And thats the idea of the emulation, for this. While it does slow things down, an efficient VM is very much comparable to a native executable. Separate binaries would be an issue, for the VM, not DF, and could be done. The calculations that aren't suitable on the GPU, and there are many, could be done separately. And with some clever memory mapping, we might even be able to perform some of DF's calculations in parallel. Of course, it wouldn't truly be parallel, it would be more like predicting it, and when DF finally calls the specific function, finds that the VM already did the calculations. This would be difficult, if possible at all. Its an idea, an intriguing idea, but even if the project were possible, it certainly wouldn't be feasible by a single person.

Even if it did work, it would be such a hack, very much dependent on disassembly of DF, and it would have huge compatibility issues between versions, that it wouldn't be suitable for normal use without a team supporting it. I'd say the community is strained enough supporting DF hack, let alone a Frankenstein-esque VM designed to work around an inefficient program. Although, to Toady's credit some optimizations that may have huge benefits would be very difficult, so there is certainly no fault in not producing that, although some simple multi-threading in a few key places would go a long way, as you mentioned.

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