Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2014, 10:32:02 pm

After reading the last several pages, I'm going to unvote LARD. He answered my questions, and he seems to be more inexperienced than scum. I'll have questions for people tomorrow once I've read over everyone's walls of text posts.

Differentiate 'inexperienced' from scum (and town, for that matter). It seems more like you judge him as a whole rather than how he did back there.

He still bugs me, since I dislike his answers, but there have been lots of things going on and I have several questions for people.

Graknorke: You are currently arguing with mastahcheese.

You seem to be sidestepping a question ("What's your read on Persus13" or something like that). What makes you think that no one will care about this? Obviously, at least mastahcheese cares. If you keep refusing to answer, more people will start caring about your answer.

You say you will be convincing, and yet you also say that you can't be convincing. If you're town, play like town. Go scumhunt and get information for all of us. Also, your most recent post was somewhat lacking in anything substantial; you respond to mastahcheese's questions with things like "You looked at the wrong thing" or "It doesn't matter". Why is this?

Epichighfive: I also want to know why you voted for LARD. PPE: Why Persus? Give quotes to support what you say.

Persus13: Why do you think lynching a lurker over an active person is a good idea? Active people are a better choice to go after first, since they tend to be able to make more informed decisions regarding who to nightkill/mislynch if they are scum.

Lard: What do you mean by me being "non-committing"?

mastahcheese: Can you sum up your arguments against Grak? It's really annoying to go through every bit of text that you and Grak write.

Tiruin: He is making the same mistakes that I did the first time I played as town. He also has the "self-centeredness" that you got annoyed at me about. He has said things that are odd, and I still am wary of him, but a lot of what he has done comes down to not knowing how to effectively play town in the first place. Compare him with DP109 (or my early play), and you'll see the same things happening. While he could still be scum, I'm currently getting a "newbie" read from him over anything else. My decision on him depends on what he says and the number of other people that I suspect (there are only so many scum).

PPE: 14 new replies while I was typing.

After reading the last several pages, I'm going to unvote LARD. He answered my questions, and he seems to be more inexperienced than scum. I'll have questions for people tomorrow once I've read over everyone's walls of text posts.

Graknorke: What do you believe is odd about the behavior of TDS?
TDS: What do you believe is odd about the behavior of Persus?

I noted it in my post above, but in case it wasn't clear:

-Odd priorities for who/what is scummy and who isn't (twice)
-Wanting an extend because people are undecided on their lynch vote and then mentioning that lots of people are trying to lynch LARD, all in the same post

I'm leaning towards Grak being town right now, but I want to see his response to Mastahcheese's comments. It could just be Grak being new, or it could be a scumtell.

Quote from: Solymr on March 02, 2014, 04:10:38 pm

Now there is something that doesn't add up about your last statement. If those four are suspects of bandwagoning Lard, why did you exclude TDS, who also voted for him?

Oh, that's one I missed, considering I was going to list TDS, Tiruin, and myself as being the ones who made the vote. While I would expect Persus to be more thorough, I still can't really find anything to imply that it wasn't just an oversight.
Well, I say that. They only really have interacted once, and it was TDS making a pressure vote on a question that I wouldn't think required it, then Persus answered and TDS unvoted and never followed up any more questions for Persus. The possibility of it being staged to make them look less like a team is slim, but there nontheless.

As for the extension, I don't think it's necessary. We have over 40 hours to reach a conclusion, and the problems are certain people not communicating enough, rather than one where it can be solved with more time.

Persus is definitely acting odd.

Here are my questions to Persus13 (partly based on what has been said):

1. Why do you consider Solymr's FoS worse than the three other people who have actually voted? Sure, he doesn't have a reason to vote, but he never voted in the first place. FoSing is for pointing out who you think might be scum. It's still odd, of course, but it's only one small thing - not really enough to make him likely scum unless more evidence turns up.

2. How is LARD considered only slightly scummy for what he has done while Darkpaladin is considered a "larger scum lead" for simply being new and lurking?

3. Why exactly do you think that LARD is not scum? You have stated that it's Day 1, but what does that have to do with it?

4. Most importantly, you have stated that you want to extend due to a lack of consensus. However, this makes no sense when you see that you call the LARD votes a "dogpile". When you look at that vote count, it's 3 votes for LARD and one vote on DP109 and you each (but those might be pressure votes). I don't see how an extend will change the situation very much; mind clarifying?

Everyone, how comfortable do you feel with a lynch at this point?
I mean, I think LARD is scum, but at the same time it feels like he hasn't really responded properly to any accusations. I know that it's his fault for being slow or whatever, but I'd kind of like to see what he has to say. Maybe it could clear some things up, at least. 55 hours to go for that.

I've already voted for him. Also, I'd think that not really responding makes him even scummier, since it shows an unwillingness to explain things that a townie would have no problem doing.

And another question for Everyone: Ignoring how scummy any individual is, who do you think is likely to be NKd today?
I have my own thoughts but I suppose it would ruin a question like this if I gave an answer to this question right underneath it.

My guesses (not necessarily in order):

Me (sadly) - Active and scumhunting
Persus13 - IC
Tiruin - IC, but hasn't done as much as Persus13
Graknorke - Active and seems like hge knows what he's doing
Everyone else probably has a low chance, but that could change. Also, there are no guarantees that anyone in the list is not scum (except in the person's own knowledge).

And yes, you should only "edit" posts in Mafia games with quotes (sometimes called EBWOP, or Edit By Way Of Post).

Everyone: Is there a time to use the FoS, if so, when?  What do you believe is the difference between an FoS and a vote, beyond the obvious?  Do you believe that the questions asked on day one can help find scum, and why?  Would you rather have a power role or a vanilla role, and why?

1. FoS is for times when you suspect more that one person at once. It is also useful when someone seems to be scum, but you are not sure.

2. FoS tends to be less severe than a vote, obviously. However, it tends to mean either "I'd vote for you if I could [since I'm already voting for someone else]" or "You are scummy, but I'm not entirely convinced of that".

3. Definitely, but not until later in the game. They indicate what kinds of things a player says they will do, and responses (or a lack of them) can sometimes be checked for a conflict with the playstyle of the person in question in the late game.

4. Power role, because I like having to do more than just sitting there at night; with most roles, you have to find even more information than a vanilla townie so that you have an ability target.

A question to Everyone. (Making it huge since people seem to be missing these)

Would everyone please be so kind as to provide your current reads, now that we are out of RVS?

Reads:

Players:

Solymr: Has not posted that much. I have a hard time getting an alignment from him, especially since he doesn't use quotes enough. Null read.
Graknorke: Posts a lot, and tends to be open about what he does. Town lean.
mastahcheese: Asks questions, but hasn't been all that active. His posts are long, but tend not to give a useful indication of his alignment (for me, at least). Null read.
4maskwolf: He has responded to questions and gone after some things he found suspicious. Town lean.
LARD: He's overly defensive. He also had an odd comment about his RVS vote that makes it seem like it was intended to lead a mislynch. Medium scum lean.
darkpaladin109: Semi-active lurker. He usually responds to questions with one-liners and hasn't really made the conversation go anywhere. On the other hand, he's new, so that makes this less of a scumtell. Slight scum lean.
TheDarkStar: Me!

ICs:

Persus13: Null read, since a lot of his comments are IC-based.
Tiruin: Same as above. More needs to happen before I can make a decision about either one of them.

TDS: Which is more important as town: to stay alive, or to try and lay the seeds for others to find scum and be killed for it?  Why?

Staying alive is a really low priority as town. Really, scumhunting is the best thing you can do. Some scumhunting is gathering information, and that will probably not get you killed if you are careful - you are just reading. Other scumhunting involves posting suspicions, and that kind of thing can get you killed. However, explaining your information to other people is better than not saying anything and living - the scum probably know it already anyway.

TDS, in your answer to 4maskwolf's question, you mentioned the cop asking you to protect them. In that situation, would you also announce that you were the jailkeeper and protecting them, or would you just do it?

I would just do it. Announcing myself would make me the first target and the rolecop the second target. I might make a request for the jailor to defend him, though (or get someone else to do it).

Everyone  Ambiguous answers, are they scummy?

P.S. Celebrate with me, for I have learned to quote!

Yes, since they mean that someone is not willing to say what they know.

Also, congrats.