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Hmmm...... *imagining a fantasy scenario of hundred of NATO aircrafts arriving in Easterm Ukraine, bombing Russian columns and then European politicians saying something like "what NATO aircrafts? Those were Ukrainian"*
That would be rather nice, yep

"I don't know what happened, my Ukrainian neighbour needed to mow his lawn, so I loaned him my aircraft carrier and 4 battalions of Leopard 2s..."

And if anyone thinks that being in NATO is sufficient for protection, well, that is still remain to be seen. i am skeptic about it.

That is the reason behind the recent NATO plans to station more troops in the East. If it was proven that NATO can't defend it's members, the West has basically collapsed.

Just because a lot of people forget fast, especially if it doesn't concern them directly, doesn't mean the important people do too. The flashy short attention span news sites are not that interesting, but if even the parts of the left that have always defended Russia call for EU sanctions, that might imply long-term shifts in political thinking. Putin might win a war against Ukraine, but he is alienating a lot of people and losing goodwill very fast.

I live in a major transportation hub of 300 000 people housing two military bases (and a freaking ICBM silo in Soviet times, it was removed in the 90s, though), in a country which is allied with Russia and houses Russian military installations. Should things get really, really bad, my chances of survival are 0% - me, my family, and everyone I know IRL will get vaporized by American nukes in the first minutes of a full-scale war.

If it consoles you, I think I live close enough to an important American base, that will likely be a target for the Russian counterattack. So I and everyone I know IRL will get to enjoy annihilation shortly after you and your folks.

(That's what I meant above BTW, worrying about something like that is a point of view I can understand beyond all cultural or political or whatever differences.)

With NATO planning to significantly expand its military buildup on Russian borders, the future surely looks very bright for all of us. Blindingly bright, I'd even say.

Well, thank Putin for that. With his behaviour in the last few months, he might as well go ahead and build some new NATO bases himself.

Quote from: XXSockXX on August 27, 2014, 04:25:49 pm

Nobody was very happy about it, but I don't recall it being portrayed mostly as a war of Russian aggression, more like a very harsh reaction to some stupid moves by a Georgian government that was a bit overconfident about the backing it might get from the West.

CNN's broadcast of 08.08.08, "Russia Invades Georgia"

You realize that "Western media" is not only crappy American TV news.
German chancellor Schröder blamed Saakashvili at the time (not that surprising, since he's Putins buddy). The EU blamed Saakashvili too, while being a bit more reserved toward Putin.

Quote from: cerapa on August 26, 2014, 10:35:13 am

Quote from: Sergarr on August 26, 2014, 10:28:56 am

Thousands of people, quietly and casually pushed away from their homes, or killed. That's all because of the mountaineer people mentality "might makes right". If they perceive you as weak, they will attack you.

I know of a certain other culture that acts like that.

Can you guess who I am referring to?

I would guess the United States vs Native Americans, especially the 19th century. But that wouldn't be the only example, just the first one that comes to mind.

It's a past that we're.... not particularily proud of.

Russia. I think he was referring to Russia.

BTW, burningpet, Do you have any laws against Israeli citizens participating in some war abroad as mercenaries\volunteers?

Don't know what Bay12 guidelines say about trying to recruit forum members as mercenaries. 

Quote from: Leafsnail on August 25, 2014, 05:33:14 pm

Right, they should have helped out the famously non-terrorist Qadaffi

Exactly. seeing how the libyan people were FAR better off with qadaffi, i'd say yes, they should have helped out the recently non-terrorist qadaffi. or at least do nothing when he tries to protect his country from Al-qaeda.

Not sure about the "far better off" part, as Gaddaffi was a pretty sick individual who tortured and raped his population for fun in his spare time. But from a geostrategical point of view, he kept the region stable, which somehow makes him, if not a lesser evil, a more predictable alternative. Same with Saddam, it was underestimated how much he kept Iraq together. And with evil crazy dictators you can make deals and arrangements, with religious fanatics, you can't. That is the moral dilemma currently, with a mass murderer like Assad in place the region is more stable and less dangerous than with islamist militias taking over.
The only long-term alternative would be to build up and support democratic moderate forces in the region, but that opportunity was missed a very long time ago. With the grassroots support islamists have built over the decades, plus all the tribal, ethnic and religious rivalries, it does not look very viable now. Even the Kurds are actually splintered into many rival factions, they just keep it together to fight IS. If that should be over, things might look different again there too.

Seems more like a contrarian thing than trolling to me, but then I have not followed the discussion that closely.

Phmcw: No offense, but are you a troll? Cause  remember arguing with you about sexism, and the argument you put forth was people were subject t racism, therefore sexism wasn't an issue. now you seem to be arguing that people are subject to classism, therefore racism isn't an issue.

Eh, I don't know if I agree with Phmcw on everything he says, but he's got a point in that the American point of view on race issues is quite different in some regards to the European one, so I'd say certainly no trolling there.