Bay 12 Games Forum

But Frumple... the democrats didn't even try.  It's like they dont respect the idea or something.

Hey, some of 'em are trying something.

And what, smj? I'm pretty sure under a proportional system they'd still be one of the major parties, or if nothing else splinter into two or three of them.

Sanders got delegates, and a good deal of them. That it is not enough to win the nom does not matter, the delegates have the right to present at the convention however they want. The irony is that if Clinton and her people for even a moment were not so destructively absorbed in appearance and media days, if at any point at all they recognized the legitimacy of the chunk that supported Sanders, then this wouldn't even be an issue.

What would that even look like? The party itself gave them, and sanders in particular, probably more support than was appropriate. Policy wise, they're asking for very little that isn't already being sought, and clinton's even made some kinda' suboptimal policy shifts in their favor anyway. Party rules and regs wise, they've gotten as much or more largess as anyone in the party does, for all that they've squandered it to a fair degree more than once. What more does it take?

I can't imagine anyone not wanting to be angry and protest when they keep getting ignored. So many voice votes just ignored. Why even bother with the process if you're just going to ignore what it means?

If that's the issue, the folks that fed up with things should get off their ass and make their own party, instead of trying to suck on the teat of an existent one and screw up its general working at the same time. They knew what the hell they were getting into going into this, and when that's a problem you don't do it. Or get the party support and fix the tally method beforehand, or whatever would let them cooperate with a clean conscience. The methods for change exist. Maybe if these folks spent half the time they do tantruming trying to build bridges and convince other folks that using those methods is a good idea, they wouldn't have this problem.

I would personally have zero bloody issue if this had happened a few months ago, or if these folks had just gone independent before the primary started or whatever the hell would make them feel better, since the means and methods of the bloody party they willingly signed into isn't cutting it for them. But when they start doing shit like's being talked about, it starts pissing me off from an almost purely technical standpoint. It's an example of either incompetence, bad faith, or outright maliciousness, and none of the above make me even remotely happy. This is not how you work with a group you've voluntarily joined. This is not how a competent adult pushes for intraorganizational shift. This is how a jackass grandstands at the expense of everyone they previously claimed to be supporting. If they want to protest, they should stop trying to reap the benefits of the organization first, damnit. You don't with good faith claim to be supporting an organization and then undercut what it's trying to do.

I'm all for change and protest and all that shit, but goddamnit when you sign up to support something you bloody support it, and do what you need to do to push for change when it's not betraying your previous commitment, or you get out.

God forbid people have an opinion outside the approved truth of President Clinton.

If this is the general reaction to somebody so much as disagreeing with her, then I really do hope Trump wins.

Man, this isn't about "so much as disagreeing." People are welcome to have an opinion, of basically all sorts. Disagreement is important, as is expressing it. The thing that's pissing people off here is time and place, as well as means. If this was in a business, you'd be looking at a subordinate starting a shouting match with their project lead in the middle of the work floor, right when an investor tour or somethin' is walking through, as their means for addressing grievances. Maybe even a friggin' contracted subordinate.

If you have, like. Any working knowledge of group interaction, and particularly professional group interaction, that should make it really clear what sort of fuckup folks are calling this. If you give a single shit about the group you're working with, have anything approaching professional ethics, and a whole bunch of other stuff along those lines, it's not how you act. At all.

But hey, maybe bernie and/or the folks that were supporting him don't give a single shit about the group. Maybe they're actively there to sabotage it at this point. That's their prerogative. It doesn't mean folks that do give the least of shits can't be pissed at 'em when they start doing just that, regardless of intent.

Or at least less genocide. Can't recall if the amazons indulged much, but they were a basically immortal warrior race that were kinda' known for murder and worshiped the greek gods. I'd be mildly surprised if WW hadn't helped wipe something or another out of existence at some point in her life.

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... which is kinda' odd considering mainiac doesn't appear to be particularly centrist...

The perspective is it's a 24 hour gift to trump that could have not been given, and that's reason enough to be at least a bit irritated, nevermind what it says about sanders' political competence.

It's not as bad as Cruz did but he is still ratfucking his own team... if it even is his own team.

It being his own team was pretty questionable from the start, and it's kinda' been becoming increasingly so as the primary's gone on. I wouldn't be particularly surprised if he goes back to being independent at some point soon, for all that would say some damn nasty things about his actions during this election cycle.

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I... do have to say I liked bernie a fair bit more before this primary happened, and I was fairly aware of the guy for a while beforehand, which is a hell of a thing considering how much attention I pay to politics most of the time. However poor the democrat party's treatment of him has been (and I'd say it's really damn questionable it's actually been particularly poor, considering everything and as near as I've been able to tell), his interaction with the party (and to a fair extent its electorate by extension) has been pretty bloody scummy, and this has just kinda' cemented that.

It's caused me to lose a hell of a lot of respect for the guy's character and a significantly larger amount for his competence as a politician. He may make a decent demagogue or ideologue, but he seems like a pretty piss poor leader at this point, t'me. Still kinda' okay with him being around trying to push discussion leftward, but I definitely don't want to see him doing anything more important than being on the senate, and it's definitely reaching the point I'm getting real hopeful a better person for shifting the narrative comes along in short order

S'just... damnit, bernie. I kinda' wanted to vote for you, when the primaries started. Did, even, for all it was mostly your average protest-ish vote. Now I kinda' regret it. I didn't want to regret it.