Bay 12 Games Forum

... though yeah, if it's actually a vitamin stuffed one, it is possible you're effectively overdosing. I was having a similar issue (roughly the same symptoms, fairly terrible but transient nausea shortly after ingestion) with multivitamins until I figured out exactly what was causing it (apparently copper, in this case) and cut back on intake a bit. Unfortunately, your other best bet for avoiding that kind of thing is to take (drink, in this case) it with food.

The actual testimonies are limited to what each person remembers themself, not what other people at the scene told them.  No matter how much sense it made at the time.

... this is an explicitly untrue statement. Part of the problem with some of the testimonies is precisely that the "witness" in question wasn't even in bloody sight of the incident and were in fact reporting what others said, or what they just invented whole-cloth. Admitted to inventing whole-cloth, during the process of the grand jury prosecution massively fucking up their job by playing half-assed defense.

Quote from: Frumple on December 04, 2014, 07:11:30 pm

... on the other hand, trying to talk to a thing like C's mother (because at this point, calling that creature a person is a disservice to humans)

Woah, let's not go that far...repaying what is deemed wrong in a person by denouncing their humanity won't do much merit either--the acts she has done are wrong. Before all this, she's a person--though she would've experienced the same acts in another time in other degrees...All people who have done much wrong have either experienced much wrong before or lack control over themselves.

At the point they're acting like that, treating them as human isn't really something you should be doing. They're roughly equivalent to a localized natural disaster more than anything you can discuss things with. You're rarely dealing with an even remotely rational individual at that point -- you're dealing with something that's going bugfuck insane. They're a mobile boobytrap, you learn how they act and what sets them off, and react accordingly. Especially in someone in C's case, where the abusers are parents, the abused doesn't really have the tools necessary to improve conditions -- that's one of the major reasons why separation of an abuser and their victim is an incredibly important part of dealing with the situation.

... though no, T, as I'd say it, at the point C's parents have reached they have abrogated whatever humanity they had. Maybe they can get it back at some point, but at this one they're no different than a rabid animal. You're explicitly not dealing with something capable of reason, you're dealing with something with an incredibly messed up set of action and reaction conditions -- and if you can't get that to change somehow, attempting to reason will explicitly not work. And again, from within, from a position of weakness, without means to physically stop the abuse, that is next to bloody impossible.

Avoidance won't fix the problem unless realization occurs (though it does quite much fix having to be in the vicinity of the problem).

At this point, there's almost nothing C can do to cause realization to occur. The environment fostering the abuse has to be broken, and that is so close to being impossible to accomplish from a position of weakness the chance might as well not be there.

I'm very likely to say otherwise given my setting and studies Though I guess our terms diverge on what we talk about in abuse ._. It does work (and it doesn't at times, again due to many things), but the factors we may be talking about are different in many cases...

The only time I've heard of it working, both in personal (father was abusive, mother's worked with abused off and on in position as a teacher, etc.) and from second-hand professional accounts, is when there's someone or something else there to intervene. The chances of change occurring without something breaking the environment of abuse is basically nonexistent, and the ability of the abused to manage that is vanishingly small. Trying to talk your way out of that when you don't have some means of stopping the abuse is an incredibly bad idea, from everything I've seen and heard. It is damned likely not to help, and far more damned likely to cause the abuser to escalate the abuse.

It's further worth noting that the amount of times I've seen and heard of an abusive relationship mending, be it filial or otherwise, is effectively zero. Maybe one out of every few hundred cases? Even if it manages to break outright toxicity at some point, later interaction is, as noted, entirely likely to cause abusive habits to reemerge. Abusers and their victims need to be separated, and that separation maintained indefinitely. Some shit can't really be fixed. More, some things need to not be fixed, for the betterment of all involved.

Never look back at the bad they've done, rather. Look back at what good--however little, they did. Learn from their actions and what causes their actions to reason out into such...negative results, and steer your life away from those kinds of reasonings :O
Look back to learn. Don't look back to only focus on the bad.

My suggestion is, yes, look back to learn. Internalize what you learn quickly, and then never look back again. If you need a well of wisdom to sup from, find some other source that isn't poisoned.

I wonder how they even reason out their...outbursts and physical harm.

Quite often with this sort of thing there isn't really reason, T. It's just reactive stuff -- damned rare is the person that thinks before or after they start beating the hell out of a loved one. Getting them to start thinking is one of the major hurdles in breaking abusive behavior

Serious cases, sis.

... AC's actually being fairly serious. It's a fairly well known phenomena for abusive parents, in the states, at least, to call the cops on kids trying to get away from the abuse. Note that it's fairly common for the kids to be brought back, a story of lying children spun, and the abuse ignored.

... but yeah, I'unno if it should move to a different thread or PMs or something or what. Know the topic's a bit too close to home to not get jittery over it, though, so I'll probably leave this as my last words on the immediate subject.

... on the other hand, trying to talk to a thing like C's mother (because at this point, calling that creature a person is a disservice to humans) is something that's pretty much guaranteed not to work, as well. It's pretty damned certain trying to will just make things worse, because said parent is entirely fucked in the head and there's not really a better way of putting it. In cases like that, generally about the only thing that's even remotely likely to work is either avoidance (which is currently impossible, and entails taking the siblings and getting the goddamn hell away from those pieces of filth), or some form of superior force application. Directly (self defense), through police or other entities (incarceration, intervention), or whatever. You're not going to manage to talk an abusive piece of shit into not being one. Once it's hit that point, it takes literal physical intervention of some sort -- you have to break the environment being fostered, either by changing it (leaving, getting the abuser thrown out, etc.) or removing the capability to abuse, one way or another.

It's just... seriously. You do not tell someone being abused to try to talk it out the abuser. That does not freaking work, basically ever, and is incredibly bloody likely to cause escalation. You tell them to get the hell out, stay the hell out, and if at all possible get the bastard(s) in question thrown in jail or a mental hospital where they belong. There's not really a means to fix that situation beyond permanent separation. And if that's not possible, you tell 'em to bunker down, keep the head low as much as possible, and gtfo as soon as humanly possible. The scenario in question functionally cannot improve from within.

And to C, it is sincerely damned unfortunate, but your parents are write offs. Once you (and hopefully your siblings) get free of 'em, never look back. It's frankly about the only chance either you or them have of ending up better off -- even if they do eventually get help, eventual notable interaction with their victim is entirely too likely to cause relapse, not improvement. They're broke, entirely, and because of their actions fixing that, if it's fixable at all, is something you're neither capable of nor responsible for. They need professional help and probably some degree of jail time, and at this point, you owe them absolutely nothing.

I... I just want to reiterate that the sound direction for that show (and its predecessor) is kinda' bloody amazing. Seriously.

Huh... Well I might need to find a good tactical turn based game for the PS2 then.

Maybe try asking? Never had a PS2 or a computer strong enough to decently run the emulator, so I can't help y'much, there. I've always wanted to play Soul Nomad, but it's not quite turn based iirc. The disgaea line and related stuff (La Pucelle) are some of the more obvious ones, but those might not meet your qualification for good

Quote from: Leafsnail on December 02, 2014, 07:25:06 am

It also kicks into incest mode once the first arc is over with, so yeah maybe just watch that.

It definitely hints, but I wouldn't say that it goes really any farther than that (and even that doesn't last long). The fact that there is an outright canon love interest by the end of the first arc sorta relegates any other relationship teases to the "if you ever leave this person then I'm going for them" realm (which certainly happens enough in the real world).

... you should probably have absolutely nothing to do with the games based off it, then. "Hints" they do not, because there's official SAO games where K outright beds his sibling-thing.