Bay 12 Games Forum

As for killing being immoral being outside of the bibles text... I'm pretty sure Jesus said at least something about killing[Or even violence], even in self defense being wrong.

Quote

You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

This came up previously. It's also worth noting that the bits in question make no mention of how to react in the face of potentially fatal threats, while other parts of the bible (mostly in the OT, but eh) are definitely alright with killing in self-defense, among other reasons.

21You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not kill[or murder]; and whosoever shall kill[or murder] shall be in danger of the judgment:

22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

It's worth noting, very strongly, that "kill" and "murder" are two different things, especially in regards to the original language the work was transcribed in. The KJV is also the one that mistranslated the "thou shall not murder" commandment. Again, the bible itself is actually either mum or accepting on quite a few sorts of killing. Manslaughter is mostly okay, killing in war is pretty much unmentioned (and, of course, YWHW sends its people out to murder in horrifically atrocious ways quite often)... basically anything that's not explicitly murder is not particularly condemned.

... though, please try for a different example, there, Cryx. "If you're atheist, it's okay if your baby is killed" -- regardless of the reason -- is one of the most frankly fucking horrific things I've heard in a long time.

E: Though, I'm once again terribly reminded that murdering children to bring others to worship it is exactly the sort of thing YWHW has been attributed as doing. Bloody hell

Does put you in the odd position of affirming that YWHW is very much in the business of abortions, though, even if it doesn't want mankind to do so. Quite a few fertilized eggs abort naturally, to say nothing of stillborns and miscarriages and whatnot. That's... a lot of souls that never make it very far. Was considerably worse until relatively recently, too...

YWHW is attributed as having something of a thing for killing babies, so I guess it's in line with the rest of it. Not... not sure if it's a position I would want to internalize, but eh.

To be fair, YWHW being YWHW and perfectly willing to pull tricks on people, it's entirely within the realm of possibility (albeit damned unlikely, given its other actions in regards to egoism and whatnot) that it doesn't care about who you worship and the whole "spread the word" thing is, in fact, a red herring. A test, to see who will do the right thing -- live a good life -- instead of something else.

Because she has a job on this earth
That is to spread christ's word
If I kill her, I might as well condemn those ,the ones she is here to reach or at least plant the seeds of Christ in, to hell

Or, in other words, you care more about the possible salvation of some than the guaranteed salvation of a loved one (well, technically it's more the possible salvation of some vs the guaranteed salvation of an individual, but if the original framing is more emotionally charged, we can roll with that), and you're willing to allow that loved one to risk eternal damnation in order to possibly enable them to save those other few.

That's a pretty tricky one, from a morality standpoint. Guaranteed infinite reward is pretty close to impossible to top, and willfully choosing to deny someone that is something very hard to justify. It's also really hard to balance allowing a potential for infinite punishment by not doing so. It would definitely seem that, from your perspective, the best thing you can do for your family member would be to kill them (ruddy strange though that is). This would actually be true for any individual in similar circumstances -- no matter how many people they may bring to salvation, it's almost certainly not worth the risk involved.

Of course, you can also just say that, yes, you value the salvation of others over the salvation of your loved one, or that you believe that choice is more important than heaven, among other things. It almost certainly means you're not doing the best you could for the individual being considered for early ascension. There's not much on earth that can top an immediate get-into-heaven card. It's basically impossible to top infinite consequence in a finite time frame -- that's one of the basic premises behind a lot of christian evangelicalism, even, that infinite reward and/or punishment trumps finite concerns.

No
You have the choice to do your job
Killing them would also take away their choice

I don't think a little thing like finite agency could make up the difference of the potential for absolute and infinite torture, especially in the face of guaranteed infinite reward. There's not really anything can do in the finite realm that tilts those odds in the favor of the potential for infinite punishment. It's one of those nasty metaphysical consequences that tend to pop up when discussing things like that.

I'm genuinely advocating a mandatory abortion policy for the entire human race

The wonders of taking a little off the top...

He was, yes. E: [squelch] Check that, he was a senior (equivalent) for the first year of the original material. Part way through the second, entered uni.

Mind you, he also went to an entirely different school than the senshi, so. It's still something approaching a bit odd.

E2: Ooh, shit, that's probably what's causing the difference. Chiba apparently has different ages in the anime and the manga. He's actually 19 (vs Usagi's 14) at the start of the former.

E3: Which, yeah. That wouldn't pass statutory.

I'm not sure there's terribly much you can actually do to civilize a conversation involving douching and crotch sniffing swine.

Guess you can try, though. Peepig can be UPs instead, sure.