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To show the nuance of this God: we must, to be as correct as possible, say that God doesn't exist. That doesn't mean He's not real - in fact, He is the Ultimate Reality - but "existence" as we comprehend it is not a property of God. It would be more correct (though not perfectly so) to say that He is existence itself.

[snip]

Long story short, and very much boiled-down, God comprises everything. He is the source of everything, the existence of everything, and the end goal of everything. Anything which is not God (i.e. sin) is in fact nothingness, a lack of actual "stuff," like darkness is the absence of light. As such, God does not make arbitrary decrees for humans to follow; nor is it entirely true that He has ordered the universe in any certain way - rather, the universe is ordered (according to natural laws of physics as much as moral laws) because those laws reflect the nature of God, not because God arbitrarily decreed the existence of gravity. Certain actions are sinful, not because they break some irrational law of a bearded sky-man, but because they are a turning-away from God (and by extension, the natural order).

Ohey, christian materialism! I liked that when I ran into it -- it was silly, but I liked it. Beyond the absolute non-existence of sin,* it meant that your average wall is more godly than you average human. Goodness -- that is, likeness to God -- being brute existence and all that. Holiness to whatever weighs the most! Great stuff, pretty fun to read about. I cracked up entirely the first time I actually figured out what the medieval folks that originated the concept were implying -- seriously, I was giggling off and on for days -- but several of its formulations are pretty fascinating attempts to reconcile perfection (and, in particular, omnipresence) with sin. Still have something of a fondness for it as an explanation of the nature of god, if only because of how superfluous it makes metaphysics.

Complete divorce between the goodness of god and the goodness of man, though. Good in the sense of the divine meaning simple existent matter, whereas Good in the sense of man meaning... well, a bunch of other stuff. Hilarious appropriation of a completely unrelated word, basically -- one of those fairly interesting subjects regarding religious language and how it differs from, well, non-religious language. Makes talking about it in context of morality really difficult, though, since you're trying to juggle two completely unrelated definitions for the concept of goodness.

*Sin, being literal non-existence, doesn't... well, it doesn't exist. It's not a thing, and talking about it is something approaching self-contradiction. It's difficult to talk about a thing that is not and cannot be. The concept of it being an absence is a fairly silly concept, since very, very few things (if anything) exists in an actual void. An absence is not a lack, but rather something else being there

... did the bible ever actually say anything about getting married at a church? I actually recall a few passages that are outright hostile to the concept of organized religion (Matthews 6:1-34, again. I like that one.), for what that's worth. Do vaguely remember something about being married in the eyes of god, sure, but claiming the church is equal to god sounds like a hilarious bout of heresy to me

But nah, they didn't "try". A sterile person is no more capable of trying to produce children than a strictly homosexual one, by th'measure you're using Cryx. If reproduction is the basis of marriage, a person incapable of reproduction is no more capable of committing an act of congress without sin than a strictly homosexual one. Their marriages would necessarily be false, and any sexual acts they perform extramarital in nature, as they are outside the purpose (being reproduction) of marriage.

E: Hell, you could probably make the case that a sterile person having sex is a greater sin than homosexual sex -- after all, the sterile individual has been made by god (well, barring surgical procedures) to not reproduce, and attempting otherwise isn't just incidental sin, but in outright direct contradiction to the manifested will of God. One would think that would be frowned on, somewhat.

Look at what happened when Lucifer tried to take the thrown
1/3 of the angels are now Lucifer's minions (fallen angels) occupying hell [...]

Are they, though? It's strongly arguable from biblical text that Lucy isn't even barred from heaven at this point in time, nevermind stuck in hell. Don't think terrible much is said about its compatriots (insofar as I'm aware, a great deal of information regarding hell and its surrounding characters is effectively non-biblical), but I'd figure they're in the same boat.

As for the permanent helpers thing, last I checked, several christian sects hold that the fallen are still completely subservient to the will of god. Just as ol' scratch is, really. They never actually stopped being god's helpers. They're just in the weird position of being jackasses for YWHW, or somethin' along those lines.

Being able to do anything doesn't always mean you should. He isn't going to intervene with suffering because it would invalidate life.

*shrugs* Then that makes god a complete fucking monster.

There's plenty that could be the point of earth. Life, living, art, happiness, discovery, joy, etc., etc., etc. We could have all that without stillbirths and SIDS, amongst all the other stuff that does absolutely jack shit beyond make life worse. There's a lot of misery in this world that involves no free will whatsoever. Just chance and suffering. A mother's life is not invalidated by not having to bury their newborn. A person's life is not invalidated by not being bitten by a deadly snake in their sleep. Not invalidated by not being struck by lightning, and the list goes on, and on, and on. To not intervene in things like that, when you have the power? That is explicitly equivalent to watching a child's roller go off a cliff when you have complete capability to prevent it.

As for ol' scrotch, nah, everything I'm seeing is saying the exile was because of attempted usurpation of God's power. Didn't really see anything about free will. Though, my own memories of the story are telling me lucy was cast down for refusing to bow to mankind and place itself subservient to them. Might be something local, or just getting interference from some form of non-biblical fiction. Fakedit: And then RK ninja's that. Any idea where in the text that's mentioned?

Dem. That's notably less metal.

Also, yes. "Archimedes and the Modrons" hit track "Bear Killer". Yes, thank you.

E: Mmm, giant brass clockwork owl leading a party of classed modrons against a mountain sized bear god of chaos. Delicious.

The owl also has a tiny party of praying mantises with drums bringing serious beat as they fly through.

Though, uh. Are the bear's jaws open, or...?

Quote from: Pufferfish on September 18, 2014, 11:04:19 pm

Quote from: penguinofhonor on September 18, 2014, 11:02:27 pm

No, victory is America withdrawing troops from Scotland in 2022 after a long occupation, leaving the shaky independent government to be overrun by religious extremists within a few years so we can go back in.

Protestant or Catholic?

Viking.

Tantric Hindu, actually. When the states come back for a second round, the entire nation rises up in arms against us.