Bay 12 Games Forum

The reasonable arguments against abortion are the ones being promoted by the bloody pro-choice people, trav. They exist, they're why there's a consistent message of better contraceptive access, family planning, (pre-)natal healthcare and parental support. One of the reasons anti-abortion assholes are consistently attacking reproductive healthcare and support structures, even when they're decoupled from direct abortion services, is because they're part of the pro-choice folks means of reducing abortion rates and supporting pregnant individuals. Nearabout friggin' no one thinks abortion is in itself a good thing ("better than alternatives" is not the same as "good") or wants to encourage more of them. It isn't "some people" that really want a society without abortion, it's just about everyone on every side of the conflict. The women hating fucks don't have a monopoly on arguments against the procedure.

The people supporting anti-abortion measures, particularly those behind the legislation we've been seeing for a while now or the purulent sack of shit that was the leaked SCOTUS thing, straight up have ruining the lives of women as a plain goal. This is consistent in everything they propose, everything they do, and they're extremely clear punishing them is several orders of magnitude more important than anything having to do with giving a life a chance. You see this when they throw women in jail for a goddamn miscarriage, when they go out of their way to undercut and shut down reproductive health services, when they attack and harass pregnant women, when you walk down the (long, long) list of abhorrent shit associated with the movement in question.

We do see non-punitive methods of reducing abortion being tried in earnest -- the problem we have is that anti-abortion zealots are consistently fucking sabotaging them, up to and including literally firebombing women's health clinics and shit. It's indeed not as simple as "people trying to oppress women that's their goal" -- it's a specific group and its associated supporters, not generic "people", and they're willing to wind up and set loose literal terrorists on top everything else they're trying.

It's a common enough sentiment I've heard it fairly often from preachers and churchgoers despite staying well the hell away from the churches in my community for most of my life, shit infects even general discussion outside of them. Most physical issues in general are attributed as due to punishment for the sins of adam and eve, with ones afflicting women in particular being attributed to eve's specifically. It's why we die at all according to those folks, why sickness exists in any capacity, and eve's so-called greater sin reaps greater affliction.

It's one of the common christian apologetic answers to the question of evil, and the afflictions we suffer are punishment for our (inherited) sins. If that sounds like a remarkably shit position to hold, well. Yes. Yes, it is.

That tweet... doesn't exist on the twitter account it's claiming to be from, anyway? Was going to check on it, 'cause that's pretty wild, but it ain't there.

To be clear, the Supreme Court's decision is not to ban abortion, but to allow individual states to ban abortion.

There's not actually comfort there, because that leaked decision was notable in lacking the language previously used in this kind of horseshit that limited the potential shitsack to an individual state. If that thing goes through it would open things up for a federal ban, and the GOP has made it abundantly clear that if they ever get the means to do so, that is exactly what they're going to do.

Sure, they're probably one of the rad(-ish) ones that don't have that problem. You want the radish shifters, for they're rad and presumably delicious.

Eh... a fair amount are remarkably puny, though. Not getting into some of the stuff actually living called vampire, some of which are literally microscopic, heh.

Being a shape-shifter would be rad as hell tbh

Could be, would be the uncontroversial formulation. Some shapeshifters are staggeringly unrad

There needs to be better education regarding contraception to prevent as many unwanted pregnancies as possible, so that the only women who do get pregnant actually want to be.

Absolutely, and 100% agreement. Better reproductive support in general is desperately needed on a lot of fronts, even beyond all this horseshit currently going on regarding the legal status of abortion.

Like, mate. Evolution considers traumatic insemination acceptable. It considers literally eating your mate acceptable. It considers the reproducing critter dying in the process acceptable. What evolution considers acceptable is a goddamn horrible metric for what is or isn't dangerous. It does not give a single sodden damn about you once you breed a sufficient amount, and it doesn't matter much more than that what condition you're in before or after, so long as you're managing it, so far as evolution is concerned.

Life expectancy for women is higher for a number of reasons, from societal norms leading to safer behavior to less genetic problems to better interpersonal relationships. It wasn't until pretty damn recently, historically, that birth stopped being one of the major causes of death or maiming for women, because evolution will entirely cheerfully fuck someone up in the process of giving birth. It just didn't get mentioned much because people then (and still, in lesser number and sometimes less bluntly) felt entirely comfortable shitting all over women on every front imaginable.

Even with the better practices these days, it's still something that kills even people in otherwise good health, still something that can cripple or permanently injure someone, still something fucking fraught with potential complications that can take months or years to recover from even without more severe consequences. You're safer skydiving than giving birth, near as I can tell from a quick stats reminder pretty damn significantly.

e: seriously, 2020 stats for the US in regards to just fatalities and just live births had it pegged at about 61 times more likely to kill you than skydiving. Alligators kill about one person a year statside, putting wrestling somewhere in the range of several hundred times less likely to kill you than birth, and none of that is getting into other complications.

This is what I mean by downplaying the dangers involved, when someone's listing out more "dangerous" behavior that's wildly less likely to kill a person than giving birth is.