Bay 12 Games Forum

No, it's fine. But the fact is he seems to be arguing against this on a grounds other then 'it might not work' (Which is something I feel is of course valid, we have no idea if this works and what the effect it will have is.)

Well, yes, to a degree. Even if it does work, if there's another method that's as effective, but doesn't involve harming rapists (preventing them from forming in the first place, ferex), then preferring or utilizing the harmful method is, well, less good? Not as moral, etc. The ideal situation is the situation of greatest effectiveness and least harm, and inflicting harm without reason or to excess of the necessary is reason to argue against something. "A bad thing is still bad if it prevents a worse thing" is the concept in question. Even if the lesser bad is preferable to the worse thing, it's still not good. Just less bad. Largely irrelevant to the item in question, if the article's accurate. It's stated to not break the skin, just be basically impossible to manually remove.

Though again, most of what we've seen from actual research into psych, sociology, etc., have been pointing strongly to punishment not being "hugely valuable" for prevention. S'why we're seeing a growing movement, such as it is, that's intensely skeptical of punishment as a method of prevention. It doesn't seem to actually work, despite such a heavy prevalence in the general cultural situation. The item being discussed would most likely be more effective at identification than prevention, if it works as described.

Quote from: Janet on September 18, 2012, 01:33:59 am

But most importantly Maya is much cuter than Lilith.

Very much so. I never liked the crucified look. Maya was always the cutest in that series. Even Asuka and Misato weren't that cute.

Borderlands/Eva crossover, huh. Hrm. I haven't played borderlands, but the concept intrigues me. BL *record skip*

Oh. Um. Never... nevermind. Poor shinji has enough problems without angel molestation to become a canon feature. Moreso than it already is.

Still, eva-scale random weapons might be interesting. Someone should do a mod~~

I'm pretty ambivalent about punishment as a deterrent, but I would kinda' throw out that pretty much every bit of research we've done on the subject has shown that it, well, doesn't make (much of) a difference. Close enough to none to might as well be nonexistent. S'kinda' in the same realm as catharsis (temporary improvement of mood at best, sorry! Generally doesn't even do that, from what we've actually found.). Lots of anecdotal or historical support, falls apart under rigorous scrutiny.

I don't quite remember the specifics, but iirc (big if!), the rough of it is that A) most crimes (/actions society in general wants to be deterred) are crimes of passion, and most people caught in the heat of the moment simply aren't going to consider the consequences of their action -- potential punishment doesn't occur to them until after the act, if at all -- and B) those that aren't either don't care about the possibility of punishment (for whatever reason), making it no deterrent whatsoever, or they don't believe they'll be caught -- again, the possibility of retribution doesn't effect their actions in any particular way, insofar as prevention goes.

For all that we, as humans, in general tend to support retributive punishment, basically everything that involves hard study has shown that its usefulness is marginal, at best, and likely counterproductive in many cases. Even for the victims it tends to be little salve for the damage done. There's a reason so much literature involves the moral that vengeance is empty, perhaps.

Now, on a personal level, all I really know from experience is that dominance play (which involves a degree of punitive action, albeit much more specifically utilized than punishment tends to be in the human realm) can be pretty effective for dealing with several types of animals (dogs and cats in particular) in a positive manner. That doesn't necessarily extend to humans, especially once they're cognitively developed beyond a certain point. Most importantly to me is that retributive punishment just... doesn't seem to do anything. It doesn't seem to actually deter, it tends not to decrease recidivism, it doesn't improve the lives of those transgressed against -- for all that society seems to have this long standing message that punishment does something useful, it seems to, well, not. I'm for action that has positive effect, net gain, etc., so forth, so on. Punishment as a deterrent simply seems to not be that sort of action, which leaves me massively iffy about it.

More than that, I can't really say, I think. As for the object itself, well, maybe a bit of hypocrisy on my part. Rape's a bit of a berserk button and I'd be perfectly fine on an emotional level (if not a cognitive or ethical one) if the damned thing induced a deadly poison or something (though I'd note that removal isn't quite the same as punishment, natch. Different goals.). If it manages to do what the article claims (latch on and not let go, without causing actual damage or being able to be removed without professional intervention), it sounds like it'd be pretty good as an identifier, if not a deterrent. Especially if, I'unno, something like a tracking chip was implanted in the things. Cost'd go up a bit, but it might be useful. Maybe we'll have something even better than that thing at identifying at some point in the future.

Definitely won't be playing, but I might do some spectating occasionally. No interest whatsoever in crawl at the moment, but it's not terrible watching other people play, usually. And I still remember a little bit about the game

Wishing folks luck, though!

Not sleeping well =/= not sleeping

I can sleep while still under the stuff's effect, but it's very noticeable the next morning compared to when I don't, yeah.

Outside a college town would be ideal, really. Bit further out than suburbs, if possible. Somewhere woody, possibly on a mountain or something. Or in a bog. Not swamp, bog. Preferably one with public transport so I don't have to drive to get around.

Not really fond of the press of big cities, really not fond of the fucking bigots seeming to infest the small towns, but I do like being around (if not necessarily in, ha) wilderness regularly. Somewhere in between, where I can at least partially bury a house. Want somewhere with the possibilities and diversity of a city but like, a fiftieth of the population. Maybe less.

I just realized that the university I'm headed to next semester is twice the size of a town I once lived in.

Ha. The dorm I was in while I was getting most of my bachelors had a higher population than the town I live in, iirc. Definitely 90, 95% of the population. Just one dorm!

That, ID theft, and potential blackmail. Plenty of people leave stuff around their computers that might be usable or do stuff that might get them in enough trouble (not necessarily legally, mind) they'd be willing to do something to keep it under the table. Actual numbers on that sort of stuff are probably pretty small, but better an ounce of prevention, etc.

E: I have no idea what a solenoid is! Ahaha. I haven't even popped the hood. Won't need it for another day or two and it was getting on in the afternoon so I just went "meh". I had/have a new computer to start breaking in~