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Messages - Frumple

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27136
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« on: January 01, 2012, 07:09:11 am »
Quote from: RedKing on January 01, 2012, 06:48:30 am
We're not THAT bad. (Okay, maybe the Florida panhandle is...)
Parts of it is. It really, really is. I live there :-\

But yeah, there's less troublesome areas. It's not all bad, but some places are just pretty damn nasty if you're not 'one of their sort,' if you will.

Quote from: RedKing on January 01, 2012, 06:48:30 am
But they have their own social issues (read Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil as a starter).
Fun fact: My father actually knew the guy murdered in that book (well, the actual event it was based on, anyway). Was in the trail and everything.

27137
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« on: January 01, 2012, 06:20:09 am »
Yeah, you'd manage better if you stick around the university towns and aren't too vocal about the progressive thing outside of there. The whole vicious bigotry and insularity thing isn't as bad in those areas.

The trouble is finding and managing relationships beyond shut up, pet the dog, and say "yes'm," without running into that undercurrent of 'holy-hell how can such nice people be vicious hatemongers' that's been pretty endemic to the area, from what I've experienced. M'in a particularly bad area for it, though, so you'd probably have better luck.

27138
Play With Your Buddies / Re: S.P.A.Z LP
« on: January 01, 2012, 06:12:19 am »
Definitely Flora. Swap two of the tractor beams for launcher boosters (if you have 'em, anyway), then go to town with the missiles. That'll just pretty much sweep the game up until you hit the zombies*, from what I've seen.

*Swap out one of the boosters for PD, switch over to zapper drones and you'll pretty much roll them, too. Flora's pretty deadly.

27139
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« on: January 01, 2012, 06:01:23 am »
Ah, don't feel too bad about it, ein. I've got around 5kish*, but a friend of mine has so much of the bloody stuff he hit the point he could play for literally a year straight without repeats a few years back.

10kish isn't that bad. Tip o'th'iceberg, it is.

*Number would multiply substantially if I had the storage for it :P

27140
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« on: January 01, 2012, 05:16:32 am »
Quote from: Vector on January 01, 2012, 05:02:05 am
Oh, and I may try and see if the South needs a mathematician when I graduate.  If there's one thing I learned from living out here, it's that I'm damned tired of being treated like a weirdo for enjoying country music and being able to plant things.  Sure, comes with its own problems and I'll still probably be treated like a weirdo, but I'll deal with it.  I need a change of scene.
I, uh. I probably wouldn't recommend it, being down here. The parts of it where country music and planting is really prevalent is, in general, incredibly hostile (especially socially, sometimes physically) to folks like yourself. It depends on where you are, of course, but...

... at the very least avoid north/central Florida like the plague. Most of the Carolinas, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas. Those are the ones I've been around enough to say you probably want to stay the hell away, unless you're aiming for the really big cities (and sometimes not even then.), in which planting is far less prevalent.

Also depends on what you mean by country music. Good bluegrass seems to be easier to find up in the mountains.

27141
General Discussion / Re: American Election Megathread
« on: December 31, 2011, 10:06:30 pm »
Quote from: SalmonGod on December 31, 2011, 09:30:19 pm
Progressives and the Ron Paul Fallacies
Leaves me equal parts despairing and enraged, yaay :-\
E: Especially considering previous discussion on how Mr. Paul is mostly the way he is because he wants to effectively rape us on the local level instead of nationwide. Wheefrakdamnthisfecalmateraltohadesarglebargle

I think I'm going to take a nap, then try to come back to actually trying to get invested in the election process in a couple days.

27142
General Discussion / Re: So I couldn't help but notice how close we are to 2012.
« on: December 31, 2011, 06:04:59 pm »
Quote from: Criptfeind on December 31, 2011, 05:54:40 pm
Was it in agreement or disagreement? Does it even matter?

I mean. What. Do you want G-flex?
I think he just wants a new name for it. To make things clear that the group isn't what it once was and that when you say 'Roman Catholic' you're actually talking about 'this particular form of Roman Catholicism that's breaking away from centralized church authority (implied: And isn't really connected to historical RC on some major functional issues).'

That'd be my guess, anyway. Things are a lot less messy when folks do that.

27143
General Discussion / Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« on: December 31, 2011, 05:58:05 pm »
Quote from: Leafsnail on December 31, 2011, 04:47:04 pm
I thought the abortion debate was framed more in terms of "A woman has the right to decide what to do with her own body", since an embryo is pretty much a part of her and it's pretty problematic to treat people as incubators without rights of their own.  It becomes way more complicated once the fetus becomes viable on its own, but it's a completely sepatate issue to whether we should kill pigs or whatever.  Intelligence doesn't come into it, in my opinion.
As a general statement, yes, that is the argument, but a side discussion pretty much always comes up as to when/if unborn children (i.e. at any point from conception to getting out of the womb) are deserving moral consideration (in excess of the woman's right to decide what to do with their own body), and to what degree and form that consideration would take.

That pretty much always leads to people trying to set definitions on when the fetus becomes "human." Almost all (certainly all I've personally seen) of those either resorts to indefensible axiomatic declarations (It's human because I -- or <Insert Other Authority> -- say so) or have logical consequence that are blatantly ridiculous (See ovary point I made earlier re: potential) when you actually scrutinize them. If you had something solid (i.e. didn't fall into either of those two categories) on that point in time, the extent to and manner in which you're morally justifiable in suppressing woman's rights to bodily control becomes much more clear.

That'd be why the 'what is humanis a fetus human' thing usually comes up alongside or in relation to abortion discussions. The question on 'what is human' comes up from trying to identify what it is exactly that'd let us say "It is human now."

Quote from: scriver on December 31, 2011, 03:47:50 pm
Even by your own semantics, there is no difference in capacity or potential between fetus->baby and baby->adult, MSH.
Ahaha, thank you, scriver. If A->B and B->C, then A->C.

27144
General Discussion / Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« on: December 31, 2011, 03:46:41 pm »
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 31, 2011, 03:39:55 pm
There is a very important difference between capacity and potential.
You're going to have to clarify instead of state that. If there's a difference beyond semantic, I haven't noticed one. E: Which you do... I guess.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on December 31, 2011, 03:44:17 pm
Capacity is something you have but haven't exploited. Potential is something you could have but haven't exploited.

A baby does not have the potential to grow into an adult, it has the capacity to. A fetus does not have the capacity to grow into a baby, it has the potential to.
Can you draw this out some more? Also, at what point does it shift from potential to capacity?

Quote from: Pnx on December 31, 2011, 03:39:28 pm
So the conclusion is that there isn't really a good reason for babies to be considered better than animals? Or do I have to strike baby-back ribs off the menu?
Nah, the conclusion is that the argument from potential is terribly flawed :P

I haven't personally seen an argument for human uniqueness (i.e. reason to value us over other creatures that isn't entirely selfish) that doesn't break down under logical scrutiny, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

27145
General Discussion / Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« on: December 31, 2011, 03:37:43 pm »
Quote from: Realmfighter on December 31, 2011, 03:32:20 pm
What about the plants that are to be consumed, used as material to produce the fetus? They also have the capacity to grow into an adult, so wouldn't eating anything then count as cannibalism?
We're generally pretty comfortable with largely ignoring the moral status of other species (Except to the extent that violating that status leads to poor moral behavior against the in-species). Cannibalism is strictly in-species :P

We also (like to) hold the potential of humans to be higher than the potential of other species (for varying reasons, depending on what axioms you're working off of), so sacrificing the latter for the former is okay, so long as the disparity isn't too high.

27146
General Discussion / Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« on: December 31, 2011, 03:26:36 pm »
Oh, not just the sperm. Ovaries, too.

It's one of the reasons the 'potential' thing really breaks down if you push it to its logical extreme. From that angle, every woman not being pregnant at all times is morally the same as abortion (an unfertilized egg is as much a loss of potential as an aborted fertilized one.), and not just masturbation, but simply the natural death of sperm is morally reprehensible.

It takes freakish dystopian science to even attempt to genuinely hold to the moral end-goal of that kind of reasoning. Iron wombs, harvested sperm and eggs, and a birth rate that's hilariously unsustainable.

27147
General Discussion / Re: New years eve, 2011. Plans for tonight?
« on: December 31, 2011, 03:08:11 pm »
I plan to sleep at some point, hopefully before midnight.

27148
Other Games / Re: Supreme Commander 2 Giveaway
« on: December 31, 2011, 11:34:10 am »
Frumple will join!

And hopefully not win. I'd love it have it (Have the first one, isn't playable on this comp), but it'd be a game that sat in my collection until I get a computer upgrade, heh.

27149
Play With Your Buddies / Re: S.P.A.Z LP
« on: December 31, 2011, 01:11:22 am »
A... grinder? Grinders have bombs? *checks* Grinders do not have bombs. Grinders have big honking gun.* You mean a pounder?

I wouldn't object to seeing some bombs in action. I've never actually used them at this point. ... I've also never seen them kill anything. At all. I guess they're more useful against the AI?

The Tug and the Volley are the only ships I'm particularly fond of in that class size, though, personally. Array can be kinda' useful when dealing with zombies or drones, I guess, and some of the other ones have alright dakka, but...

*Fun times; I just got a grinder with tech 4 beam to spew a laser beyond my fully zoomed out view range. One huge focal laser, everything else in boosters. It was beautiful.

27150
General Discussion / Re: American Election Megathread
« on: December 31, 2011, 01:00:27 am »
Quote from: fqllve on December 30, 2011, 11:37:28 pm
You could try to actively thwart the voting process? You know, mislead people into voting for the worst candidate, encourage people to be apathetic about the system, lie to people about where campaign donations go. But that's getting way too close to what could be considered terrorism for me.
... it, uh. Isn't that what the political parties do? I'm trying to think of a kinder way of putting it, but misleading people to vote for largely-incompetent people, encouraging people to be apathetic toward the process (by abusing it, leading people to feel they have no true influence), misleading -- if not outright lying -- about campaign donations? They, uh. They do that. All of that, right? Am I mischaracterizing things, here?

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