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Messages - Frumple

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3691
General Discussion / Re: AmeriPol thread
« on: June 21, 2020, 02:36:25 pm »
Also, I didn't have the signature symptom of taste loss.
Wait, has that been confirmed as actually ubiquitous or somethin'? It's certainly not unique to the crow plague (that's a general respiratory symptom, or something along those lines), and I hadn't heard anything about it being a consistent symptom.

Honestly, I don't think I've heard of anything in particular that could be called signature, so far as symptoms go. Above and beyond there being a lot of inconsistent weirdness being noticed, most of the symptoms are basically just common respiratory ones. It's one of the reasons you basically can't bloody know if your cold/flu symptoms were or were not covid 19 based just on symptoms. Shit could be a lot of stuff, not just the crow plague. Testing's the one way to be particularly sure, and even that isn't an entirely reliable measure :-\

3692
You're out because someone is arguing their point in a seemingly logical and non-reactionary way?
Mate, someone equating protesters to sporadic rioters, among other stuff that's happened in the last few pages, ain't actually doing that. If that mess seems logical or non-reactionary, somethin' gone wrong with your measure of either.

Ain't the worst I've seen coming out of folks trying to downplay the problems with cops, for what it's worth, but it isn't worth much.

3693
And ninja'd somewhat by SG, but seriously, if you think there isn't serious opposition to anything that looks like it might successfully band together and force positive change you have not been paying attention to the US for the last, like... ever.

OH. You guys think smashing storefronts and burning down buildings is in itself a positive change, and we need more of that. I see. Good thinking. No idea how I missed that.
shit that pretty much entirely hasn't started until after the cops started assaulting protestors, yes, thank you

Places that hasn't had cops assaulting peaceful protesters has seen little to none of that. You missed somethin', alright.

3694
Without [an oppressive police force] the population would have the ability to band together and force positive change
Nothing is stopping you from doing that now.
Literally cops are, though. Law enforcement targeting and harassing(/assaulting/murdering/etc.) people trying to push through positive change is, like. Constant and very much historied in the US at a minimum.

I mean, fuck, right now, these last few weeks, has seen cops brutalizing, tear gassing, running over, and a few times noted just outright killing people trying to band together and force positive change, all over the bloody country.

And ninja'd somewhat by SG, but seriously, if you think there isn't serious opposition to anything that looks like it might successfully band together and force positive change you have not been paying attention to the US for the last, like... ever.

3695
Sure, but they also don't tend to regularly brutalize people they interact with, last I checked :P

Their funding also tends to be pretty shit. Maybe they'd be better if you swapped the relative pay around and whatnot? Just a thought.

That wont cut it. How will those folks without a gun deal with armed criminals?
I mean, presumably the same way cops tend to. Which is to say they don't, because they show up after the armed criminals are gone and exist basically for cleanup and little else.

Quote
That the police system in the US is flawed is a no-brainer, but it doesn't follow that no police is needed.
I mean, have I suggested that, yet? I've noted they're mostly fucking useless and most of their money would be better off going elsewhere, but I don't recall saying anything about complete abolition, yet. I'm sympathetic that it might take complete abolition and rebuilding from the ground up to do much about the situations in the states, but that's 'cause they're staggeringly fucked up and probably need to be pulled out root and all. But is there no place for 'em? I'unno. Most of the time it feels like they're already not here, so maybe it doesn't make much of a difference.

---

Any case, if you want to see some representative suggestions (from the article linked above),
Quote from: here's a few
Instead of wasting time with minor tweaks, I recommend exploring the following ideas:

No more qualified immunity. Police officers should be personally liable for all decisions they make in the line of duty.

No more civil asset forfeiture. Did you know that every year, citizens like you lose more cash and property to unaccountable civil asset forfeiture than to all burglaries combined? The police can steal your stuff without charging you with a crime and it makes some police departments very rich.

Break the power of police unions. Police unions make it nearly impossible to fire bad cops and incentivize protecting them to protect the power of the union. A police union is not a labor union; police officers are powerful state agents, not exploited workers.

Require malpractice insurance. Doctors must pay for insurance in case they botch a surgery, police officers should do the same for botching a police raid or other use of force. If human decency won’t motivate police to respect human life, perhaps hitting their wallet might.

Defund, demilitarize, and disarm cops. Thousands of police departments own assault rifles, armored personnel carriers, and stuff you’d see in a warzone. Police officers have grants and huge budgets to spend on guns, ammo, body armor, and combat training. 99% of calls for service require no armed response, yet when all you have is a gun, every problem feels like target practice. Cities are not safer when unaccountable bullies have a monopoly on state violence and the equipment to execute that monopoly.
They're pretty decent ones.

3696
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« on: June 20, 2020, 07:48:59 am »
It. It totally can, though.

3697
My question is how do you deal with crime without a police force.
Folks without a gun and functionally unlimited licence to use it, trained to deal with specific issues, seems to be the general proposition I've seen, if it really needs to be said again. Most of the shit cops do, most crimes and ways of dealing with crime, do not require the powers most cops have, and would be staggeringly better dealt with by someone with meaningful training specific to the issue. So you defund the police, then fund social workers, investigative specialists, conflict mediators, and so on.

Maybe there's room or necessity for a (much smaller) organization that handles active violent situations, but that ain't most of what cops do and they shouldn't be getting paid to do a (shitty) job of the rest of it, especially when the results is a great deal of harm for a great many people that don't need more harm in their lives.

Anyway, if any of y'all got medium access, either free articles left or membership or a way around the paywall, here is a pretty good article by a former cop on the kind of shit their internal culture is, as well as some suggestions and whatnot as to what could help. They touch on a lot of what's been touched on in the recent bits of discussion :-\

3698
I mean, max ain't confused, often enough the cops break the law to do what they're talking about, and have to rely on a brutally rigged justice system to keep them in a job and out of jail. The law's commonly enough pretty shit, but you can generally rely on cops to make things even shittier, stateside at the absolute least.

3699
Literally just talking better than 50/50. Beyond that, that's... kinda' the point. High crime solve rates (especially relative to incidents in general, not just reported ones) basically don't bloody happen. Which should say all that needs to be said about actual police efficacy and how likely one is actually going to help with any particular crime :P

3700
I disagree. Even if they are dismal at researching whatever, it doesnt follow that they are useless. As by being present they might (and I would say, certainly are) preventing worse things from happening. There *IS* a reason why all societies have some form of law enforcement.
I mean, in the US it was to catch escaped slaves :V

And I didn't say entirely useless. Just mostly. More likely to do sod all for you than otherwise. Which, again, from what I understand of solved and unsolved crime rates is just flat true.

3701
I mean, last I checked investigation et al rates for various crimes are fairly known and fairly fucking abysmal. Most domestic abuse is not addressed by the police. Most theft/burglary/etc. is not addressed by the police beyond maybe an incident report. Most rapes are not. Most sexual assaults are not. Most assaults are not. Most traffic violations are not. Most fraud is not (and damn sure isn't handled by normal cops regardless). It's too damn early for me to actually dig up the numbers again, but they're probably pretty easy to search up so far as the US goes. The list just goes fucking on. I mean think maybe murder is like the one area where their proverbial batting average approaches decent, and there's still shittons of murders that go unsolved and largely unaddressed. Shit ain't "edge case", more like "coin flip if you're bloody lucky, lol if you're not".

Max's argument there isn't so much "bad" (though they'd definitely argue that otherwise ha), it's "mostly fucking useless", and so far as I'm aware that statement is more accurate than it's not.

3702
General Discussion / Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« on: June 18, 2020, 09:01:08 pm »
Just noticed I've apparently osmosis internalized the rough shape of (most of) the dewey classifications. 000-100s are like certain sorts of instruction manuals and standalone encyclopedias and shit, 200s are religion and philosophy, 300s are political crap, 400s true-crime and similar junk (I think, this one I'm least sure about, iirc some military stuff is either there or 300s), 500s are medical et al, 600s gardening and pet care and crap, 700s arts and entertainment (cookbooks and decorations, some self-help, sports, sometimes manga, etc.), 800s literature-y stuff (poetry, criticism, sometimes specific classic works, technically all fiction but nowhere I've seen actually does that), 900s history/geography.

I've made no attempt to actively memorize or learn that. It's apparently happened just from doing cataloging work for about a year now, without particularly trying, and I don't think I could have rattled it off even last week. Snuck up on me, some crime drama crap my grandparents were watching mentioned encoding a dewey number and it was just like, click. Friggin' weird.

I don't really give a damn about dewey classifications even (I do mostly copy cataloging, generally some else assigns the number and I don't have to care), but here I am anyway.

3703
General Discussion / Re: pot threaaaad
« on: June 17, 2020, 10:16:01 pm »
You might want to double check with the boss toad. Stuff's still illegal on the federal level in the US last I checked, and iirc they've asked folks, like... not... talk shop on things like that (directly, at the absolute least) on this forum.

E: Also, considering that and the (lack of) security measures on this forum, I'd probably recommend, uh. Not talking pot online in general and here in specific. Just to be on the safe side of things. Go wild when decriminalization comes, but keep it on the down low 'till then.

Thread on surrounding issues (state of legalization, etc.) would probably be fine, but a drunk thread equivalent, I'd guess less so.

3704
Other Games / Re: SALES Thread
« on: June 17, 2020, 10:09:31 pm »
Quality's higher, price point buy in's higher, there's at least one overlap I noticed, but overall, shit, cause is good, more power to 'em. Plenty of pretty great stuff in it.

Downside on the personal level is there's like... nothing in it I'm super interested in. Baba is You is the only thing that draws my eye I don't already have :-\

3705
Super minor happy, but finally got around to turning my driving music USB from "bunch of stuff I dumped onto it in a hurry" several months ago into something vaguely curated. Took like... three or four hours or something. Dropped about 8 gigs of music off of it, track list went from somewhere around 3k to a little under 1.3k. Gon be easier to hit stuff I'm looking for now, and I finally purged the last of the noise music (because the stuff tends to make sounds you really don't want to hear inside a moving vehicle) and a few pieces I remembered had police sirens in them, hahaha.

Next comes slowly filling it back up with (more) stuff I want to hear while driving :V

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